Words simply fail me

[Sandman]

http://www.wrcbtv.com/news/index.cfm?sid=2942

This is just bizarre enough to show up on an episode of Nip/Tuck.

[rpm]

In a related story police have solved the disappearance of her 1st husband when they rolled her over.

[Neubob]

You know, this sort of thing always makes me wonder....
(And I address the basic elements of this situation and others like it. The incest goes well beyond my response, or my comprehension)

I refuse to believe that the majority of people who suffer from this sort of hyper obesity reach the states they reach solely because of medical conditions. There is a whole lot of personal blame involved, as well, a pathological non-accountability that allows these people to continue to persist in their behavioral patterns unabated, and those around them are left helpless.

Yes, they are physically sick, but much, of not a majority of their problems also stem from a non-willingness to enforce self-discipline. When this turns into a pattern of behavior, and they end up on the industrial scales, the family members are, in effect, turned into semi-consenting prisoners, forced to rearrange their lives around the maintenance of their unfortunate relatives.

Why, I ask, do are they liable for neglect? Why isn't the quarter-ton woman liable for self-neglect, or even the other way around, for tacit abuse of her husband and daughter? Why is it that because of her condition, she becomes the centerpiece of this family, while the functioning, healthy members are relegated to the function of human zoo-keepers?

I refuse to believe that this is a sickness like heart-disease or cancer, where otherwise healthy, productive people are leveled by an internal time-bomb that was largely out of their control. Even in cases of people who are stricken from family-related heart ailments, or cancers brought on by bad habits, it is often a surprise and shock, a wake up call that most respond to by changing their lives. Hyper-obesity is a lingering, ever-present, utterly overt sickness that, by and large, is a product of habitual bahavior. And yet, it's the family members who are held accountable.

Yes, it is good and kind-hearted and inherently human to help and aid and assist your fellow man in need, but should there not be a point where the help turns into maintenance of the very problem itself? I've seen documentaries on the hyper-obese and their hospital experiences. These people understand that they are on the path to early death, yet, the majority, will still stop at nothing to eat anything and everything they want. It takes the strong will of a nurse to say 'no, you will not have a bag of quarter-pounders for lunch'--words that an emotionally, physically and, it appears, legally bound family member cannot utter.

sad.

[Grayeagle]

Interesting post.

Mostly wrong .. but ..interesting.

Metabolism is the key to consuming the fuel the body ingests.

If it slows down, for any reason .. fat storage begins.
Diet is the least effective means of controlling weight . . documented fact.
Check it out, google it or ask around .. how many people do you know personally that a diet alone has actually worked for over the long term?

The doctors are not blowin smoke when they say 'diet and exercise' do the deed .. but there is more to it than just that. You have to boost your metabolism .. and that is the rub. How do you do that?

First: .. eat something every 4 hours. Not a lot .. just has to be something, preferably something your body needs. Ideally high in fiber and liquid ...this shuts off the 'hunger' twitch and makes you feel 'full' without a ton of stuff to digest. This 'educates' your body's systems ..sends a message that you will not starve, no need to store a lot, burn it while the burnin's good baby! Don't eat anything 'between' meals .. give your body a chance to work thru what you gave it.

Second .. work some muscle groups ...the more the merrier ..at least 15 minutes a day ..at best twice a day. If you work for a living (ie: break a sweat now an then), you got it covered.

..and third.. if you are over your ideal weight ..see a doctor. Ask him about re-wiring your metabolism and checkin things out to make sure it's workin like it's supposed to. All of the above dont mean squat if your systems aren't doin the job.

If your not producing the right hormone in sufficient quantity .. yer gonna get fat no matter what you do. Fact.

-GE (a nurse, no less)
 (and stress does not cause ulcers ..another myth)

[Grayeagle]

Oh an by the way .. cancer can and does trigger hormone production that can go off the wall in the wierdest places. All depends on where the cancer makes a home, ..most cancers send out cells that can root anywhere.. it's part of the process and one of the 'stages' that the doc looks for.

Yes .. it can and does work just like a time bomb inside people.

Refusing to beleive ..well .. lotta folks beleived the world was flat, too.

-GE

[Neubob]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, Grayeagle... I've known several hyperobese people in my life(all in their 30s or younger), two of whom went through gastric-bypass procedures. The one unifying characteristic of all of them, whether obese or formerly obese, was their total lack of restraint. The two that did go the surgical route, lost weight, loads of it, treated their conditions as cured, and persisted in the exact sort of behavior that got them there in the first place. A total and unmitigated fixation on consumption.

Yes, I would have to agree that often, these conditions are aggravated by factors outside the control of the patient. However, and I believe your post reinforced this, a little effort on the part of the patient can and will produce results.

Finally, the premise of my post was that it was sad, even wrong, that family members become prisoners of this condition, when the condition, unlike many other diseases, is a result of behavioral choices on the part of the sufferer, not of something less controllable--such as a familial predisposition to cancer, heart disease, or any number of other debilitating ailments.

[nirvana]

I'm with Neubob on this one, she's complaining because she can't take care of herself?  Are you telling me, Grayeagle that people just get to 500 lbs without even noticing it?  My english teacher, on a random guess, has got to be at least 300lbs, she can't walk the classroom without breaking a sweat, I kid you not.  She likes to eat and she's made that clear to the whole class.

If you want to eat your life away that is your fault, it's like drugs, no one forced you to do them and no one forced you to eat.  Perhaps it's something in their brain, they always need to eat, or they eat the wrong things, i'm not sure.  I give her no pity.

[Grayeagle]

My premise is that eating is not the cause of what you refer to as hyper-obesity.

A lot of people think it is.

Metabolism .. as I said .. is the key.

I also know people who went thru gastric bypass ..I've worked directly with patients involved in that type of surgery during my first clinicals as a student, and have family members who have gone thru it.

Rouen-Y is the latest greatest in that field. It still won't lead to long term weight control without all that I mentioned in the previous post.

Think about it a little .. when I was in my teens I can remember putting away 17 ...*seventeen* ..sloppy joes at a contest ..and I placed second to my best friends *nineteen* .. and we were both skinny kids (high metabolism, under our 'ideal weight' by 10 or more pounds).

I know people who unreservedly eat huge amounts of anything they want, and dont gain weight. My son, for one .. at 32.. he's almost undernourished looking .. about like I was at his age.

I also know people who are morbidly obese who watch every single calorie, who buy into every single diet fad, who go thru the massive change and commitment for life that gastric surgery is, and are still morbidly obese. Think a moment on the discipline it requires to tell a doctor to cut you up and assign you to a diet supplement you have to follow or you will die. And even then it's a temporary fix if metabolism is not up to the task of burning off the fuel provided.

That teacher who breaks a sweat walking to her class works harder to do so than you do. On a guess I'd say she probably eats a lot less than you do. She makes a joke of it as a lot of people do to deflect untoward attention from people like you who think eating is all there is to it.

-GE (just sayin, tm Pasha)
 (btw, I'm 6'2", 310lbs, work for a living ie: break a sweat .. since I am 56 my metabolism has slowed down so I don't eat a large pizza for dinner anymore like I used to, not even a medium .. 3 peices single topping regular crust do me fine with a big glassa coke.. just curious, how much pizza do you eat when you do a pizza nite?) (still think it's all about eating?)

[rpm]

For those lazy fat slobs without the willpower to control their face stuffing. One hyphenated word. Lap-Band

[Grayeagle]

Ya ..  the band they put in  ..sizing is critical.

Too small and more surgery is required.
Too large and there wont be enough effect.

I've seen both results.

Yes, I know they're adjustable ..if the initial size is correct.

Rouen-Y is still the gold standard.

I did note it stated 'life style changes' .. it's not about just eating.

-GE (just sayin, tm Pasha (of AW in case you didn't know)

[nirvana]

18 inch pizza, or a medium from Dominoe's...3 or 4 slices, which is about half of it in most cases.  Since August 8 I have cut out ALL soda and i'm working on taking a slice out of my gross sugar intake as well, this is partially do to the extreme cost of dental work that I will need done in the next year to year and a half, but also because I realize...it's not quite so healthy.  I try to get an apple a day, or an orange, maybe both.  I have a "diet" Lipton green tea at dinner, maybe at lunch, and after that it's strictly water.


Yeah my teacher does a lot of work, it takes a lot of work to move that much weight around daily, just doing things like walking across a classroom.  However, the blame cannot be placed on anyone but the consumer.  For a lack of restraint or "stress eating".  Surgery can get rid of the fat but then it's their opportunity for a new life, to do what they want.

Fromn what i've heard, not a terribly reliable source but, metabolism can be boosted.

[Neubob]

I remember disagreeing with you in regards to metabolism. I too am underweight, can eat like an idiot, and still not gain a pound. I have high cholesterol, and thus limit myself greatly, but that's another story.

My main point was that metabolism issues or not, overeating or not, lifestyle changes, across the board, are necessary, and if you go the surgical route, those changes are even more important. Those that I've known just use their new situations to justify their old eating habits. "My digestive system doesn't absorb nearly as much as it used to, so go ahead and give me that large pizza as an appetizer".

What I was trying to get at was that people with this mentality, who don't get the surgery, or who do and then balloon right back to where they were because they don't listen to their doctors, are an unfair encumberance to their family. The remedy? There is none. Nobody can reasonably ask a family to desert one of their own. It is sad, however, and, if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that these overweight people are doing nothing to remedy their own situation, preferring instead to lean on their close ones for everything while still maintaining the habits that got them there, then perhaps THEY should be liable for neglect.

[Delirium]

It should of been evident that this woman was in a caustic enviornment  before her husband and child were put in charge of her care, you don't get to 500 lbs overnight.

Her family caregivers failed her, her medical caregivers failed her but not seeing the problem, and she definitely failed taking care of herself.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Delirium
It should of been evident that this woman was in a caustic enviornment  before her husband and child were put in charge of her care, you don't get to 500 lbs overnight.

Her family caregivers failed her, her medical caregivers failed her but not seeing the problem, and she definitely failed taking care of herself.

That's interesting, Delirium. Personally, I think the bulk of the blame lies with her. Maybe it's not voluntary, maybe it's a pre-programmed genetic pre-disposition to a lack of restraint (coupled, of course, with a very unfortuitous metabolism). The same case, or one similar to it, can be made for people who have no anger-control mechanisms, and fly off the handle and commit road rage and crimes of passion at the drop of a hat. For some reason, we're not as quick, or as resolved, to judge their doctors and immediate family when they short-circuit.

Yes, I believe grayeagle has a point when he talks of various physiological issues that led to this, but without her actively supporting the weight-gain and without actively making serious changes, she's damning herself. there's very little the bystanders can do besides encourage, support and maintain her. To try to enforce the life-altering changes is nearly impossible, especially when such changes inflict immediate suffering on a loved-one. Her doctors are equally helpless to stop her from doing what she's going to do at home. Short of committing her to a clinic for 24 hour care and control, there is simply no way out other for her to take charge.
Frankly, I don't think there should be. Given such a precedent, we'd soon live in a country where the law of the land will be:

An individual is free to live how he/she wants, but only until they start adopting bad habits, at which time a state-appointed committee will take over decision making responsibilities, as well as liability for the individual's well-being.

This is no longer just about this woman, because the details of her sickness are not clear. It is about the disease of obesity itself.

[Meatwad]

Fat women and family incest






Only in Tennessee