Author Topic: How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?  (Read 529 times)

Offline lazs2

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2006, 09:07:02 AM »
One of the things the guy who is sponsoring the bill said was that it was for "everybody"

In other words... you did not have to be a citizen of kalifornia or even of the U.S.

What it amounts to is that we will cover not just kalifornia but the world.  It is a health care plan for all of mexico as well as kalifornia.

No one will be turned away.

It really "fixes" nothing.   We simply pay more.   Those who work pay for everyone.   They say that it will "only" cost about 10% of everyones salary to implement.... figure more like 30% if there are no restraints on it.   Those who work and get health care now will lose their benifits and take a big hit on their wages to boot.

The way it is supposed to work is that it will cut down on the cost of paperwork to a few cents on the dollar instead of the 20 cents that HMO's and private plans do...   medicare is currently running 30 cents on the dollar for paperwork tho in kalifornia so.....

lazs

Offline Holden McGroin

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2006, 09:07:14 AM »
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Originally posted by rpm
What makes you think the government can't do a better job of managing healthcare than the private sector?


Why is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." a funny statement?
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Offline Nifty

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2006, 09:17:52 AM »
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
The problem is that (according to the article) they are trying to abolish private insurance for those of us who aren't on welfare.

That would absolutely piss me off if it happened in Florida.

I love my health insurance. I had outpatient surgery in 2001. My copay was $30 total, including the initial visit with the surgeon, the pre-op stuff, the actual surgery, the visit to get the staples out, and the medication.

A visit to the doctor costs me $5 out of pocket.

My insurance costs me under 2% of my gross paycheck every two weeks, but that's because I'm single. It'd be 3 to 4 times as much if I had dependents.
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Offline lukster

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2006, 09:26:40 AM »
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Originally posted by rpm
What makes you think the government can't do a better job of managing healthcare than the private sector? The military has an excellent medical system.


Some would disagree with you on that statement but I think it's pretty good care. However, the military produces no product and is completely dependent on those who do. Complete socialization of health care will result either in much lower standards than what you currently have or much higher costs. Lazs' 30% of everyone's income sounds right to me. It will go higher unless you limit it to legal residents.

Offline wooley

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2006, 11:10:28 AM »
Wow - had no idea this was on the cards.

I've some very real experience of this kind of thing, having lived in the UK with its National Health Service (NHS) prior to moving to California.

Let me tell you about the UK's NHS. Firstly the good - if you need to see a doctor, you will - free of charge. If you have an accident, an Ambulance will pick you up and take you to an emergancy room where you will be treated free-of charge. If you need a prescription, it will cost you no more than approximately $25. Sound great huh?

However, there's a few downsides:

Firstly, if you need to see a specialist or have in-patient care, be prepared to wait. Years.

Secondly, free-of-charge is, of course, no such thing. Direct taxation (what get's taken out of my sallary each month) is almost exactly equivalent between the UK and California. However, that's only because raising income tax is political suicide in the UK. Instead, 'Stealth' taxes are the preffered method of revenue generation. How does 17.5% sales tax grab you? Or $6 a gallon of gas?

Thirdly, there is a whole underclass of people in Britain working the benefits system who are costing the NHS uncounted millions and contributing nothing.
Healthcare in the US may seem expensive, but I'm willing to bet if I did the math my insurance costs are less than I was contributing through taxes in the UK. At least here I'm only paying for myself and my dependants. Back home I was also paying for all the leaching scum with no interest in ever working for a living.

Finally, DMV has nothing on the NHS in terms of wasteful, arrogant, useless beurocracy.

Ultimately, universal access to healthcare sounds great, but in my experince, it'll come at the expense of quality of service and huge costs to those of us who'll be paying for it.

Offline lukster

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2006, 11:58:50 AM »
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Originally posted by wooley
At least here I'm only paying for myself and my dependants. Back home I was also paying for all the leaching scum with no interest in ever working for a living.


If only that were true but it ain't. There are a lot of people using our health care system that can't or won't pay. Those who can and do pay are also paying for those who aren't through higher health care costs and resultant higher insurance premiums. We're already half way there in socializing medicine.

Offline Nashwan

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2006, 01:02:24 PM »
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Healthcare in the US may seem expensive, but I'm willing to bet if I did the math my insurance costs are less than I was contributing through taxes in the UK.


I wouldn't be so sure on that, and don't forget what you pay in taxes for healthcare in the US. This year, Medicare and Medicaid will cost about $680 billion. The NHS in Britain will cost about $150 billion. As the US has just under 5 times the population, just the medicare and medicaid budgets will cost almost as much per capita as the NHS in Britain. When you add in all government (federal and state and local) funded health care, the US spends the same or slightly more on state funded healthcare than the UK.

And then you have your insurance premiums on top. Don't forget that these also go to subsidise healthcare for others, as doctors and hospitals provide a certain level of treatment to those who can't or won't pay.

The US currently spends about 15% of it's GDP on healthcare, the UK about 7.5%

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Thirdly, there is a whole underclass of people in Britain working the benefits system who are costing the NHS uncounted millions and contributing nothing.


That is nothing to do with healthcare, of course, more to do with social security, and it's where such a large proportion of British taxes go.

EDIT: According to the CDC, as of 2002 health spending per capita in the US was $5,317, in the UK it was $2,160. 44% of spending in the US came from federal and state government, 36% from health insurance, 20% from out of pocket payments and other private funds.

So government paid $2,233 per capita for medical costs in the US, slightly more than total health spending in the UK. When you add in the subsidy built in to insurance premiums to cover costs of those who can't or won't pay, in the US you are spending considerably more subsidising healthcare than taxpayers in the UK.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 01:45:59 PM by Nashwan »

Offline lazs2

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2006, 02:26:31 PM »
so nashwan... you are saying that the U.S. government does a much worse job at providing healthcare than the UK?    I would agree... imagine if we allowed them to not just run medicare but the entire system.

Besides.... anyone want the brit waits for real healthcare or...

How bout them british dentists?   that what you want?

lazs

Offline wooley

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2006, 10:53:59 AM »
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Originally posted by lazs2

How bout them british dentists?

lazs [/B]


There's nothing wrong with British dentists - its just convincing British people to go see one every now and then that's the problem. :D

Offline BigGun

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How can Kalifornia afford "HillaryCare"?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2006, 11:33:25 AM »
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Arnie better veto the **** out of that crap.  One of the stupidest assembly bills ever, and that's really saying something considering the idiocy those clowns have come up with in the past.


Only reason morons in Sac sent it to him is because they know he will veto it. No way is it a serious piece of leg. that they hope to get signed in.