Author Topic: The COMAIR Crash (Read 618 times)

Sandman · « **on:** August 31, 2006, 12:34:15 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2377069&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Okay... so there's one controller in the tower and he hasn't had enough sleep.

Whatever.

One would think that it would be a good idea to check the compass before rolling on takeoff. Do they not do this?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:35:11 PM »

I think it was a series of blunders, beginning with under-paid pilots and ending with sloppy ATC scheduling.

LLv34 Jarsci · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:54:06 PM »

Mainly it was pilot error but because ATC officers duty is to watch the traffic in his/hers traffic area he is also responsible. One of my collegues managed to stop one accident when under heavy fog conditions one plane used wrong runway and he managed to see one tiny light speeding at the wrong way. He told the pilot to stop and the pilot complied. It was later found that the plane would have definately crashed into ILS localizer antenna.. classic example where disoriented pilot makes stupid mistakes... HSI was 180 degrees off..

Wolfala · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:10:36 PM »

Sorry he got 2 hours sleep, but responsability for the crash rests solely with the Pilot in Command. The controller didn't put him on a runway conflicting with other traffic - he issued the clearence to a runway, the PIC went to the wrong runway, died - end of story.

Wolf

Golfer · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:25:19 PM »

No accident has just one thing that causes it. There's always a chain of events that happens and if just one link in that chain is broken then no accident ever occurs.

The media will be the media. The truth is it was a sad, tragic and like any other accident...could have been prevented. They will make a bigger deal than need be over the plane swap, duty times...which as I understand isn't an issue. However according to a Comair employee the crew had been there for more than a day just the aircraft arrived the night before. I have no positive verification of this since I can't get into their computer system.

One controller operations aren't uncommon. While during the day having a minimum of 2 controllers is a necessity it's not so in the wee hours of the night and early morning. For instance checking flightaware it shows that Lexington yesterday had only 9 IFR departures between the hours of 11pm and 6:30am. There were a whopping 6 IFR arrivals. Are 2 guys supposed to sit in the tower to watch 15 airplanes takeoff or land for 7-1/2 hours?

I don't think the NTSB will list the controller not watching the airplane takeoff as a contributing factor. Their #1 job is to separate IFR traffic and if there was no other IFR traffic...he's got an easy job.

At any rate there were many opportunities to prevent the accident but just like any other accident none of the links in the chain were broken. The best thing we can do is learn from the mistakes and be safer in the future.

I posted this on another board:
I flew for the first time today since the crash and took an extra one second to look and see that the runway and my heading bug matched. I'll be dedicating that one second of every flight I make to the passengers and crewmembers of that flight. They have made me safer for it and I thank them and hope they rest in piece.

I'll also be doing flight director takeoffs at any airport I'm not familiar with. When you're in Go-Around and Heading mode if the aircraft is not lined up on the runway heading you select the command bars will not be level. Our ops specs say for all 135 charter legs we are to use the FD, but I'll be incorporating it on part 91 (owner use and empty) legs. This is something I haven't been doing and have been using raw data at most airports rather than ones we visit often.

May they RIP and here's hoping that Jim P. makes it.

cpxxx · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2006, 02:07:26 PM »

I'm afraid I can't see how the controller can be in any way blamed. If he had looked up at the right moment he would have averted the crash, maybe.

But the responsibility lies with the pilots at the end of the day. They lined up on the wrong and unlit runway. It was a mistake but there you are. The fact that it was unlit may be a factor in accident report because the runway they should have used had a lighting failure when they flew in previously.
So you can see why the fact that it was unlit may in fact have actually confirmed for them that they were on the right runway.

As Golfer says no one thing causes accidents.

cav58d · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2006, 02:13:41 PM »

I am very interested to hear transcript from cockpit voice recorder...Did 2IC pick up they were on the wrong runway and announce to the captain? If so, how did the captain respond? I think in all likelyness (sp), both PIC and 2IC failed in many area's including CRM, and basic private ticket av knowledge, which resulted in the deaths of 49 people...tragic...

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2006, 02:46:03 PM »

Lexington - The pilots on doomed Comair Flight 5191 initially boarded the wrong plane before taking off from the wrong runway, according to a US newspaper report on Wednesday.

The pilots got to the airport at about 05:15, boarded the wrong plane and began flight preparations before a gate worker noticed the error and told the pilots to change aircraft, the Washington Post reported, citing Deborah Hersman of the national transportation safety board.

=================

Would there be a cockpit transcript from the FIRST plane?

LePaul · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:39:35 PM »

My best friend called me the day it happened...he's an American Airlines pilot and has flown out of that airport many times. He said the mistake they made on that taxiway is very very easy to do.

Sandman · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:42:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
My best friend called me the day it happened...he's an American Airlines pilot and has flown out of that airport many times. He said the mistake they made on that taxiway is very very easy to do.

In other words, he doesn't use a compass either.

Golfer · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:43:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
In other words, he doesn't use a compass either.

Bad taste.

LePaul · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:43:56 PM »

Do you ever do anything asides snipe ?

He simply stated that the way the taxiways are setup with the runway, its a mistake that could happen if one wasnt careful.

That's it.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2006, 04:00:40 PM »

You know that when the captain realized they were out of runway, his instinct said :

"Full reverse/brakes, run off the end of the runway thru the fence, bend the plane, everybody lives".

Then he recalled all many years of hard work to get there, and concluded:

"Hell no, I'm not going to loose my licence, If I can make it airborne, maybe no one will notice".

Sandman · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2006, 04:11:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
Do you ever do anything asides snipe ?

He simply stated that the way the taxiways are setup with the runway, its a mistake that could happen if one wasnt careful.

That's it.

That's perfectly understandable that a pilot can make a wrong turn or miss an intersection. I'm sure it happens all the time.

What I don't understand is how a pilot can hear and acknowledge that he's been assigned to runway 22, then roll on to a runway and with the compass pointing at 260, apply power.

It seems like simple basic navigation and your comment makes it sound like these sorts of mistakes are common. I sincerely hope not.

LePaul · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2006, 04:11:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
You know that when the captain realized they were out of runway, his instinct said :

"Full reverse/brakes, run off the end of the runway thru the fence, bend the plane, everybody lives".

Then he recalled all many years of hard work to get there, and concluded:

"Hell no, I'm not going to loose my licence, If I can make it airborne, maybe no one will notice".

That's being assumptive. You simply dont know.