Author Topic: What Mid level graphics card (PCI Express) to get ? (Read 1010 times)

Blagard · « **on:** September 01, 2006, 11:37:33 AM »

I need to buy a new PCI Express graphics card that will give good frame rates without overkill! running at 1280x1024 - AGP cards are not an option for me.

If you have a top end card with 75+ fps in a furball on the deck at an airfield with all detail maxed out, That information is not really of any use to me as I know the card is way out of my Budget!

Good frame rates are those that return a clear picture without stuttering along and in intense situations I think 25/30 is the minimum, ideally with maximum detail turned on. So it is frame rates when your card is having to work hard that I need to know.

I know what 100 UK pounds will get me and it is the ball park budget I have in mind. But if an Asus 256MB EN7300GT Silent Edition PCI-Express will give good frame rates, then that may be enough and I will get plently of change out of my Budget.

As my motherboard will be a SLI type with a pair of graphic slots, will two low spec cards be better than one higher one? e.g. 2 x 7300GT compared to a single 7600GT. I don't have a clue how they would be connected, but no doubt the manual will clear that up!

Note that I would like to stick with cards that have passive cooling (no fan) I like my PC's as quiet as possible!

Cheers
Blagard

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2006, 11:43:11 AM »

I dont know of any modern cards that dont use fans. If you just cant stand fans, invest in water cooling.

Schatzi · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2006, 11:53:41 AM »

I would recommend a 7600GT 256 (despite the fan)

Blagard · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2006, 12:04:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I dont know of any modern cards that dont use fans. If you just cant stand fans, invest in water cooling.

Asus do a number of fanless cards. Fans are OK with me as long as they are not noisy! The rest of the system will have the quietest fans I can fit, but it is the loudest one that may spoil the day!

Roscoroo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2006, 01:20:31 PM »

Fanless Video cards are always underclocked p.o.s.
I've never seen a VC without a fan run decently .

Remember most decient video cards have at least a 400mhz processor, Would you expect that gpu to stay cool without a heatsink/fan combo ??

If you want quiet Water is the only way to go ... remember even with water you still need good case airflow and at least one 120mm fan to keep the other components cool .

Blagard · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2006, 02:11:37 PM »

Roscoroo,

I take your point, and indeed most cards do have a fan. But there are cards without them and having seen a review of the performance they did not seem bad!

As an example
"ASUS EN7600GT SILENT/2DHT/256M" Runs at 560MHz without a fan.

What I don't know is how the cards perform in Aces High and the real world frame rates different cards give. Once I know, I can decide which card to buy.

It's this end aspect that everything really boils down to.

As an addendum to my original posting
I will not bother with dual cards using SLi - I have read up on a hardware guide that suggests this is a poor price/performance route and that one good card will be better than two at half the price!

Roscoroo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2006, 02:25:31 PM »

Bet I could push that card enough to overheat it easily , and it wouldnt even be at 560mhz .

I'm just saying beware of the fanless cards ... everyone ive Installed for guys have all had a tendency to overheat and started the graphic anonamilies when stress tested or gamed hard .

the drivers/bios that come w/ that card underclock its gpu most likly too.

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2006, 02:25:44 PM »

Trust me on this. ANY video card without a fan is less than a half-arse attempt at making money. These cards cannot do 1/5th the things that cards with heatsinks and fans can do.

The fan on a mid-range video card is NOT that loud. In fact your PSU fan and your case fan are probably louder. If you can't stand this noise there are options -- such as placing the case on the floor under the desk, or in a ventilated cabinet, and so forth.

Blagard · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2006, 05:15:18 PM »

Well some strong opinions on aircooled processors there!

Does anyone play other games like half-life at 1280x1024 with all the features turned on? and if so how do frame rates compare to Aces High ?

I have the original Half life on my PC but no idea how to read off frame rates. Also I think reviews use a later half life version anyway!

Just for interest, I thought I had done my homework on cards that interest me even though I don't know how they will perform in AH and quote a bit from one review -(Hope thats allowed !). It was not the only one btw, others reported similar.

http://www.bytesizedreviews.com/?rev_id=314
"Testing the cooler was of great interest to us, as a passive solution rarely cools a powerful video card such as this one as effectively as an active design. With the cooler positioned in the upright position, we were shocked to see that the Silentcool 2 cooler is actually more effective than the reference design thanks to cooling from the CPU fan. With the cooler in its adjacent position, it was somewhat less effective, but still well within safety margins for the card, and at no point did we experience instability even in a poorly cooled chassis."

Roscoroo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2006, 06:41:55 PM »

Now that ive got time i'll give a good going over ... (at home)

thats a passive heatpipe cooler its still ment to have a fan positioned in front/behind of the remote cooler ...

Something i dont like is they have the topside Ram chips covered with a heatsink but not the lower side , notice the 4 open chips around the gpu .

I would like to see a heat pipe setup that puts the cooler outside of the box or to a special rear internal flow box that a 120mm fan blows thru to disapate the heat and remove it from the box.

the cards specs look great and its close to the x1800gto in most of the tests i reviewed (Yes I went and looked at 4 diff reviews )

one thing i will point out is 99% of these guys testing Dont put the components in a case ... they lay them out on a bench and test them in an "Open" enviroment .

heres a better review http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1985&page=1

they dont actually say that there test is bench ,but notice theres no case mentioned and in the artical it does mention you still need good airflow with this card . I wouldnt be afraid to use this card . But id guess its gonna need a "LeafBlower" Case .

I'm shure 38ruk and a few of the other guys will come along and look it over too

moneyguy · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2006, 07:00:26 PM »

i bought an ATI X1600 pro 512MB a few weeks ago. really kicks arse. was just a lil under $200 and was plug-and-play for the most part.

Blagard · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2006, 06:10:26 AM »

Well, no actual feedback on frame rates, but some very interesting comments none the less. The bottom line is that after reading more and more reviews I have ordered the Silent ASUS 7600GT I previously identified.

I came to the conclusion that whilst a slightly lowerspec card would still be OK for Aces High my final choice would allow (if desired) some other modern gameplay to good effect, and I was happy to pay a small premium for silence!

I am confident the card will work well in my new PC because coupled with the ASUS motherboard the graphics card should be ideally situated to piggy back the Main CPU fan.

The ANTEC case it is all going in comes with nice 120 size fans and an Antec quiet power supply. I will probably add another Fan or two depending on the layout. But putting in stand alone fans is no problem, as you can always chuck out any that become noisey.

Thanks for the comments. I will no doubt put up a comment or two once the system is built and running to report on how well it seems to perform.

In the meatime my Wife is now very keen to get my current PC as an upgrade to the even older one I passed down last time!

Krusty · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:45:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blagard
I will probably add another Fan or two depending on the layout. But putting in stand alone fans is no problem, as you can always chuck out any that become noisey.

I think I should caution you. I'm only going to mention it this because of the way you've posted.

Fans are not meant to be chucked if they are too loud. Heat kills. Fans reduce heat. A big case fan might be useful but specific components (including heat intensive ones) require dedicated fans.

Would you run a CPU without a fan? Just the heatsink? A GPU creates just as much heat. It needs a dedicated fan. If you get a heatsink-only video card, it's like getting a heatsink-only CPU: It has to be severely underclocked an nerfed so it doesn't flash-fry in the first 20 seconds.

Silence is not the end goal. Ensuring the safety of your system is. Vital parts that *must* be properly cooled include the CPU, the motherboard, and the GPU. Other parts that SHOULD be cooled include the hard drives and maybe certain other items (if installed).

Please re-think your entire "silence by removing fans" philosophy. It's going to leave you either 1) with a fried computer or 2) with the performance of a 1999 computer.

Please note there are other paths for silence, including water cooling, variable speed fans (set them to lower rpm, they make less noise) and so forth.

Do not simply remove fans! There would not be any fans if they were unnecessary!

Blagard · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2006, 04:39:18 PM »

Nice one Krusty!

You are right of course and I could have posted more clearly.

What I should have said is I chuck out the noisy fan and put a nice quiet one back in it's place. preferably an even more efficient one.

In my current PC case I fitted heat sensors as well as adjustable speed fans and have monitored the temperatures (in various hot spots) which is I agree, critical to your computers well being. There was a time when a CPU only needed a passive heat sink. We could well be heading in that direction again, although I cannot see the day when a complete system will be cooled by fanless convection and conduction!

My concerns about fans on Grapic cards probably amounts to the fact that I do not know how easy it is to replace them! Every other fan in the case including the ones in the PSU, I know how to manage.

Its all pretty simple physics, If you know the heat loads in the case then you know what air you need to shift through the case to cool it based on the temperature difference between intake and exhaust. In addition to moving the right volume of air through the case you also try to ensure the heat is being taken away from the right places inside the case to keep the hot spots as cool as possible hence the little fans on CPU's and GPU's(when fitted

). But remember its not the fans that do the cooling its the heat exchanger and the air you move over it. Fans simply focus the movement of the air over the exchanger and move it more quickly. A good heat exchanger may not need the assistance of a fan.

When it come to water cooling the same principle applies.

Rest assurred that there will still be fans in my case, but by careful design and consideration I expect to do the job efficiently with as few as possible.
If you don't have a clue then just bung in fans all over the place and you will probably hit the right bits sometimes!

A bit like aiming on Aces High - some can shoot down with less bullets used than others if they know what they are doing! - I regret I still suck at shooting! but at least my case and components will be cool

Now if you not a Bish and see a spit dweeb hitting nothing you will probably know its me!

Cheers
Blagard

jtdragon · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2006, 10:19:01 PM »

the 7600 GT would be a good for you, will give should give you 35/45 FR