Unofficial HO Ettiquette

[Stoney74]

Ok, this is not a flame, just a simple question...

TC got angry with me last night because he said I ho'd him.  My take was he was in a Pony D, higher and faster than me.  I was in a Jug N, and low and slow.  We made a not quite direct HO pass, and I dinged his engine and made him smoke.  

When I first started playing, I wouldn't pull the trigger on the HO because a lot of folks said it was bad form.  After being HO'd by just about everyone, I started fighting fire with fire.  To be honest, if I'd known it was TC, I wouldn't have pulled the trigger, because I know he wouldn't do it to me.  But, I'm gunshy at this point because I've been shot down in HO when I didn't pull the trigger, and the other guy did.  Now, I pretty much expect it, so its a reflex.

So, my question is this--is there a time--any time, when the HO is not considered bad form.  If I'm defensive in a lessor plane, being dove on by a better plane that has alt and speed, is it still bad to HO in an attempt to drive them off?  Does the other guy automatically get rewarded for his e-state by deserving a clean approach to my six?  If a Hurri II, Il-2, 110, C-Hog, etc. pull into me for a HO pass, I'll pull off to avoid facing those guns.  I have been flying the jug a lot, and if I'm on the deck slow, I don't feel like I have many options...

If there's some technique I don't know, I'd be more than happy to learn.

[Reynolds]

The HO is never bad form when the other guy shoots first. Another thing to note, its only a HO if you BOTH have a gun solution. If you both go head on, but you get under him and upper-cut into his engine, thats not a HO, thats a... lemme think of a name for that... Under-bounce!

[Schatzi]

To me, HO is *always* "bad form". In most cases pulling for the HO means you loose position/angle.

The questions is: do *you* consider it bad form? If yes... then DONT DO IT. No matter what the others do or think. "If i had known thats XYZ i wouldnt have HOed..." IMHO thats an excuse.

But then, i have a very strict moral for my fighting etiquette. Do i loose fights because of that? Yes, i get killed... but to me i didnt "loose" anything. When i pull the trigger in a HO, then i lost.... no matter who died.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Stoney74
Ok, this is not a flame, just a simple question...

TC got angry with me last night because he said I ho'd him.  My take was he was in a Pony D, higher and faster than me.  I was in a Jug N, and low and slow.  We made a not quite direct HO pass, and I dinged his engine and made him smoke.  

When I first started playing, I wouldn't pull the trigger on the HO because a lot of folks said it was bad form.  After being HO'd by just about everyone, I started fighting fire with fire.  To be honest, if I'd known it was TC, I wouldn't have pulled the trigger, because I know he wouldn't do it to me.  But, I'm gunshy at this point because I've been shot down in HO when I didn't pull the trigger, and the other guy did.  Now, I pretty much expect it, so its a reflex.

So, my question is this--is there a time--any time, when the HO is not considered bad form.  If I'm defensive in a lessor plane, being dove on by a better plane that has alt and speed, is it still bad to HO in an attempt to drive them off?  Does the other guy automatically get rewarded for his e-state by deserving a clean approach to my six?  If a Hurri II, Il-2, 110, C-Hog, etc. pull into me for a HO pass, I'll pull off to avoid facing those guns.  I have been flying the jug a lot, and if I'm on the deck slow, I don't feel like I have many options...

If there's some technique I don't know, I'd be more than happy to learn.

ROFL, Stoney74,  let me send you the film, Sir. I was not angry at you, you did not HO me, it was one of the other 3 Dolts.but also remeber me apologizing for my having too much of that good stuff.......and you wasn't even coming at me headon btw.......

and for even more chits & giggles I'll send you an even funnier film of me and TexasTC vs WM's sharp & Scrap in the DA......you would really fall out of ya chair I do believe......

I prefer not to on most accounts, but it is your money, your way you want to play, I can not tell people how to play, only show them a better challenging way, perhaps.

~S~

edited:  good stuff is refering to the bottle of Patron (Tequila) I finished off after going to the DA, and let me warn ya never switch from patron to jose especial if ya run out, you will have a HO splitting headache the next day after you miss the first 13 wake up calls from your work!!! ROFL

[Schutt]

Ho is bad form, but as it seems you didnt ho TC. Remember if an enemy whines about a ho it might also be he is talking about a diffrent pilot. A lot of the whines (not TC though, but a lot of other people) are forcing head on encounters and then whine because they get shot down a lot head on.

If you think you are "Always" HOed it is sometimes because you, yourself either force this kind of encounter OR are so hard to shoot down that the enemy pilot desperately tries every possibility to shoot at you. What i want to say here is that 1st, when you always fly directly into the enemy to engage him youll have to take a lot of HO encounters, so eaven if you dont fire the other pilots get a lot of chances and 2nd if you are in a slow, agile and well turning plane the other guy cant outmaneuver you but just pulls away and comes back guns blasting, no matter which way you turn.

I usually fire if i get a ho shot. Now you might ask why do it if it is bad form so i will try to explain. I try to engage in a way that there is no head on situation, rather want to have a good position than a 50 50 chance of dieing. But if i mess up the merge and land in HO situation, then its bad style.  So in my eyes the shooting is not the bad thing but flying in a way that it is eaven possible to fire head on is a bad form.

Another reason is that when in a ho situation the other guy notices that I do NOT fire he often FORCES HO situations and fires himself, because he is save since i dont fire back.

Hope this helps & doesnt make it more complicated !

cu schutt

[Major Biggles]

just a few quick things on the HO...

it can always be avoided, if you have decent SA you should be able to guess where he's going, and if he really is going for you, especially from higher up, never HO, waste of energy, and you're most likely to die to a higher opponent. best thing to do is turn away from his HO and roll your plane so that he has very little profile to shoot at.

from there, defensive ACM's should hold you until you can level the enrgy states and get em

it is hard for new players, the whole HO issue, but personally i consider almost any face shot bad form, simply because it's the *lazy* way out of a fight, end it quick.

if you ever need help with any moves to help you defend against HOtards and BnZ guys, i'd be happy to help you

[Stoney74]

Well, no worries TC.  I just thought I'd use this opportunity to expand my horizons a little.

Maybe if they'd just put some tail guns on the Jug it wouldn't be such an issue.

Thanks for all the replies...

[The Fugitive]

First I think you have to define a "HO".

90% of all merges at the start of a fight are in the head to head area, the other 10% are bounces. From there on, its all angles. In the DA all first passes are ussally agree to be guns cold... no firering, and alls fair after that.

To me an HO is when you do a head to head merge, and their guns are firering faster than their engines! I almost never fire on that first pass. To me it just isn't right, after that, if the enemy that Im fighting isn't spraying with every pass, I'll hold my fire till I have manuvered to a good shot then take it. To me the fight is what its all about, who can get their plane into the right position for a good guns solution.

Thats how I spend my $15, alas, we are in the MA, and I end up dead alot to spraying dweebs who can only fly strat at ya with guns blazing.

[Auger]

After the first pass it isn't a HO any more.  Well, technically it's a HO, but not  one worthy of calling names and whining on 200.  The ones that come at you from 5000 yards out, using pure pursuit the whole way in, and start pulling the trigger at 1500 are low down, four-flushing, booger eating, scum of the earth HOes.  The up side is that you can usually lead turn them and they may even be dumb enough to turn back.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Stoney74
So, my question is this--is there a time--any time, when the HO is not considered bad form.  

Anyone who expects that you will not shoot at him/her if you have the shot is being silly.  As many have mentioned, the HO is easy to avoid (by the target) and is usually a bad choice of tactics (by the shooter).  When it makes sense, take the shot and don't worry about the target's sensitive feelings if he/she is hit.  But you should NOT make this your staple technique, as so many in the MA do.  It puts you way behind the curve if your target knows what he/she is doing.

- oldman

[SuperDud]

I'd HO if a guy who had all the alt wanted to. It at least gives me a 50/50 and would end the boredom of getting bored and zoomed.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SuperDud
I'd HO if a guy who had all the alt wanted to. It at least gives me a 50/50 and would end the boredom of getting bored and zoomed.

Well, I worked with Stoney showing him how to counter the BnZ by turning into the attacker. Forcing nose-to-nose merges until E is equalized. Done right, you can neutralize the enemy's E advantage, creating a draw or static situation until no advantage remains.

Stoney is a fast learner...

My regards,

Widewing

[FBplmmr]

if you HO then you are a HOer... you can not qualify it by saying "I only do it when whaaa whaa whaaaa."

thats like saying "i'm not a theif.. I only steal when...."



I was laughing so hard last night in the MA .. theese jokers were defending a base and they were in "spray and pray" mode.

 I looked to my low 3 oclock and a jug is trying to stand on his tail 1.5 away trying to shoot me!   and sure enough there was a bunch of spitla HOers down there .

... I seem to be getting better at avoiding the HO but it still makes me mad when the HO is a cherry picker too!  they should cherry pick from the back ...like I do !:D

dont fly spitlas ... apparently that s@#t is contagious!
(but the blue ones are all mine)

[Max]

75% of the MA players will go for a co-alt, smack dead on head shot. Volumes have been written on this subject. A good stick sees the HO coming and turns the tables on the "one shot wonder"

[Krusty]

HOing isn't bad form per se...

Only HOing, running to turn around to HO, extending, looping around (up, down, or flat) and going for the HO again, and suicidally HOing in a direct attempt to RAM every freaking time -- THOSE are the worst form. I've seen them a lot recently.