Author Topic: Bone to pick with Maltese Miracle (Read 875 times)

scottydawg · « **on:** September 03, 2006, 07:46:49 AM »

I have a small bone to pick with the design of the FSO scenario played Friday night, Frame 3 of Maltese Miracle.

It's a design flaw, dunno if anyone will even care, but for the squad who had the task of protecting the Italian Destroyer Gorizia, it was a totally impossible task.

The Gorizia was placed nearly 3 squares away from our deployment field. Not really a problem in regards to range, however it was 1 square away from the enemy fields that were tasked to destroy it. By the time we arrived to protect it, it was already sunk. That's just bad scenario design. No offence to whoever wrote it but it kinda should have been obvious.

As well, the numbers mismatch between the Axis and Allies was kind of ridiculous.

Just saying. Lately it seems like there's a disconnect between the designers and the participants.

Nefarious · « **Reply #1 on:** September 03, 2006, 09:18:35 AM »

"By the time we arrived to protect it, it was already sunk."

The 332nd was over the Gorizia before it went down. I was in the 5" Guns shooting at their scout Bostons, when you guys arrived.

forHIM · « **Reply #2 on:** September 03, 2006, 09:53:43 AM »

I wasn't there, but looking at the logs:

1. Ship sank at 22:!6:58
2. First mongrel kill was of a scout Boston at 22:14.
3. First mongrel kill of a TBM (the planes that sank the Glorizia) was at 22:16:15

There's a difference to getting on station in a position to defend and racing to target at low alt so you can have a chance to get there to see it go down in flames.

3 sectors to target for defenders. 1 sector to target for attackers. Please explain how that's a balanced setup or one that give a chance for the defense to get in place. Is this indicating that the setup had the Axis birds that were 3 times as fast as the Allied planes.

From a points perspective, maybe the Mongrels should have ignored the frame orders and saved the points for their "perk" planes and just logged off?

Just seems like a BS design.

Also when you were in the 5in guns who was in the best position -- the dive bombers or the CAP?

Nefarious · « **Reply #3 on:** September 03, 2006, 10:19:40 AM »

The Mongrels passed over the Cruiser and off into the dots, Looked like a stiff headon attack from my perspective, then the TBMs came in to Icon range with the Mongrels in pursuit.

The TBMs didnt really seem to dive in, Maybe a Shallow dive to gain some speed coming into the target.

I was just pointing out that you guys were there and the Gorizia was still alive. You guys gave it your best, and your stats for frame 3 prove it. 17 Kills, 6 Assists, although some pretty tough losses.

332nd outlaw · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2006, 03:23:40 PM »

Nef with all due respect your perspective on the event is flawed to be nice.

we where just barly at 10k alt when the boats started flashing let alone even formed up. we ended up have to fire wall it to even get there before they actually hit it and when we did we was spread out as much as 10k amongst the squad just trying to get there before i even had the chance to get into fireing position on the first tbm i came across bombs were alrdy on thier way down.

yeah we ended it doing a decent job of aerial work on kills and the such but had no chance of even comeing close to being able to defend the objective. if all i wanted to do in FSO was have 2 hordes clash in a big furball i will stick to the MA.

scottydawg · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2006, 04:46:08 PM »

I'm not trying to pick a fight here at all, please don't get me wrong or take offense. It's just that the objective (of protecting the ship) wasn't realistically achievable due to the logistics. Like I said, it appears to be flaw inherent in the design of the scenario, and not anything that the CM in charge of the event had any real control of (unless it was exposed in a previous frame).

Nef, I'm not unloading on you and I hope you don't take it personally.

Nefarious · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2006, 06:45:36 PM »

Sorry Guys, I wasnt trying to be argumentative and I apologize if I came off that way. Just a little frustrated.

I did make a mistake with the orders in the fact that you guys couldnt make it to the ships and set up a proper defense. The intent of the design was to see the ships near Malta to engage the island with its heavy guns. The RAF had a three sector grid search area, It seems a larger search area may have helped and the ships spawning closer to A4 would have given you guys more time to setup and properly defend the area. Although if its any consideration the Allies never sank any of your destroyers in the fleet. Which were all viable targets, all four equal in points to the Cruiser.

Curiously enough, The Allied fleet which was in the straights between Sicily and Malta was never found by the Axis. Which goes to show, that the Axis ships could have been just as easily overlooked as the Allied.

Another thing I've pondered since this discussion has started was using the CV to launch the Axis Fighters then detonating it after a T+5. Something I may use if a situation like this in FSO should it ever turn up again.

daddog · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2006, 08:22:58 PM »

I don’t think anyone thinks your trying to be argumentative. I did not take your posts that way. I do know my guys were frustrated with what took place and vented on our squad BB and here.

Well I am not going to beat a dead horse here, but I was surprised you said this Nef.

Quote

Although if its any consideration the Allies never sank any of your destroyers in the fleet. Which were all viable targets, all four equal in points to the Cruiser.

Our orders were to defend the Gorizia. Nothing was said in the orders about defending the destroyers also. I will quote the orders I received below…

Quote

3. The Italian cruiser Gorizia is close to bringing its guns to bearon Malta. Lets make sure they can begin shelling Malta by defending
them from attack. Defend the Gorizia, it will be steaming West at 12,
1, Keypad 3.

None of us knew the DD’s were targets also.

Having said that it should be pointed out to everyone that Nef had to scramble and do the Axis orders last minute. No fun and it is often a formula for mistakes. Doubly so if you don’t have another Admin CM to bounce off your write up and frame orders off of. I don’t envy you in that reguard. You have a full plate Nef, let GD, Drone, KO or others that know Squad Ops also look stuff over on the CM BB.

Also the whole numbers thing you guys are dealing with in the other thread. I have said it before and will say it again. Get rid of the squads that are not holding up thier end! It just makes more work for you guys and the squads you can rely on. If it was a real life issue that caused the Frame C.O. to drop the ball, fine. Where was his X.O.? Why did you have to do them?

Lastly all I ask is if something is pointed out prior to a frame that may be a problem ahead of time by experienced players or CM’s, (as this was) you give it due consideration and not as attacking criticism that some take it as.

Nefarious · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2006, 10:36:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by daddog
Lastly all I ask is if something is pointed out prior to a frame that may be a problem ahead of time by experienced players or CM’s, (as this was) you give it due consideration and not as attacking criticism that some take it as.

And that is what every player deserves, not just you.

Unfortunatley I made a bad judgement call in my Objectives. And when it was brought up, I still overlooked it. Beleive you me, If I could roll back time to last weekend, I would have done a few things differently. But thats neither here nor there as I can't.

ghostdancer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2006, 08:06:57 AM »

Daddog I actually was under the same impression as you guys in regards to the Italian DDs. I thought that only the CA was a valid target so that is all we went after and as soon as we put it down we tried to fall back and disengage.

It wasn't until toward the end of the frame that I think Kool asked me if I was sure that the DDs were not valid targets. Being paranoid I alt - tabbed out and re-read the orders and to my horror found out that the DDs were valid targets. Way to late for us since we only had one TBMs and one Boston left.

I still feel like an idiot for not thoroughly reading our objectives but just stopping at the part saying we must stop the Gorizia from shelling Malta.

daddog · « **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2006, 10:22:40 AM »

Well it is a good think you did not read them carefully because that would have been just one more bone to pick. Our orders said nothing about defending the DD's just the Gorizia. Once it was sunk we left unconcerned about the DD's

I also strongly disagreed with the use of 5" guns in Squad Ops. For years that was not allowed, but not any more I guess. But that is another thread I am not going to bother to start.

RSLQK186 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2006, 01:09:17 PM »

The use of 5" guns to suppliment a late arriving CAP was something that interested me. How do you man them properly without taking too many players out of planes? And do you destroy them when CAP arrives? They are probably coming in lower that they shood. I think it was worth a try and hope they keep trying to mix things up.

My sqaud has paid the price of exparimentation before. Didn't like it much, but the idea was shelved- added to the "well that didn't work" list. Don't know if this was already on the list, haven't been here from the start.

BTW I'm courious. When a CV's hardness is set and then you destroy the 5"s before launch time, does it start out with damage? If so, I'm sure the CMs take it into account. But I'd like to know if 4k really equals 3.5.