Author Topic: "Britain and the United States are carrying out a review of sanctions against Iraq. "  (Read 1541 times)

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
It's taken nearly a million dead Iraqi children, and the condemnation of half the civilised world, but we finally have a recognition of the pointlessness of the humanitarian sanctions.
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1180000/1180088.stm

War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
 
Quote
However, the attacks were condemned abroad by Russia, China, Turkey, France and Iran.

LOL! This is the best list they could come up with?

...they forgot to add: "Russia, China and France rushed to sell Iraq more weapons to replace those that had been destroyed."

AKDejaVu

TheWobble

  • Guest
When exactly did anyone but saddam kill any of Iraq's children..oh wait not countin those that saddam may have tied to targets to dissuade attacks..

saddam pretty much reinvented the use of the human shield, what a POS.

Yup im sure the brits and americans have killed millions of children over. just look at the reports on what Iraq says was bombed...
hmmm... that giant chemical complex was a hospital for children..of course they have razorwire and armed gurads around them.. thos things that were shooting SAMs at us must have been innocent children and old women..oh well

too bad some people are dumb enough to believe that crap.

 
Quote
It's taken nearly a million dead Iraqi children,
What a joke.  Could that phrase be any more pathetic and transparent.



[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 02-20-2001).]

LJK Raubvogel

  • Guest
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding:
It's taken nearly a million dead Iraqi children, and the condemnation of half the civilised world, but we finally have a recognition of the pointlessness of the humanitarian sanctions.

Oh yeah, that's much worse than the countless young boys and old men Saddam poured into the his war against Iran before there ever was a Desert Storm. Not to mention his use of chemical agents against the Kurds, and against Sunni separatists in Basrah. Please, lift all sanctions so Saddam can again be the generous man he once was.

TheWobble

  • Guest
QUOTES FROM SADDAM

"In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate. O great people, O splendid men of our brave Armed Forces, O Arabs, O mujahidin, the men of the heroic Palestinian people's intifadah. "

Yes and if those men say they dont want to fight, Saddam will have them and their famly murdered.

"Whenever the deluded ones imagine that criminal America and the Zionist entity, which has usurped the Arab and Palestinian territory and which has indulged in its crimes against the Palestinians and Arabs and the sanctities of the faithful, are two different things, a new evil piece of evidence appears to confirm that America, the enemy of the peoples, and Zionism and its accursed and deformed entity, are one and the same thing in terms of aggression and evil."

Yea, but somehow invading for no reason, using poisen gas AGAINST YOUR OWN people, murdering those who dont want to fight for you, and making chemical weapons, starving your country and its childen to death so you can build another palace  isnt all that evil.


"The Americans and Zionists will only reap disappointment and failure from the aggression they plan against Iraq, the Arabs, and Palestine. "

Yup, this was obviously proven by our horrible defeat in the gulf war.  LOL

"Iraq of Mother of Battles will remain lofty and victorious"


ROFLOL!!


Saddam needs to stay off the crack at least a few days before he releases a statement..
Doese HE even believe this crap?

Offline blur

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 154
 
Quote
Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
Oh yeah, that's much worse than the countless young boys and old men Saddam poured into the his war against Iran before there ever was a Desert Storm. Not to mention his use of chemical agents against the Kurds, and against Sunni separatists in Basrah. Please, lift all sanctions so Saddam can again be the generous man he once was.

Pop quiz: What superpower was supporting Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war?  

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Yes Wobbly, Saddam is a truly perverted individual. That is not in dispute. But:

"The continuation of sanction imposed on Iraq since 1991 has had a staggering effect on the health of children. International health and aid organisations, as well as UN agencies' figures estimate that around 6000 children are dying every month. A total of 570,000 have died from malnutrition and disease between 1990 and 1996. Since then this figure is estimated to have reached over 1 million. Since then, this figure is estimated to have reached 1.5 million."

- Medical Aid for Iraqi Children

From a paper presented to the International Law Association, posted by blur in another thread (referenced):

"Based on figures quoted by US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in January 2000, during the two and a half years that the oil for food programme has operated, it has delivered only US $74 of food per annum per head of population. When it is recalled that, according to UN sources, Iraq was importing 70% of its food requirements even before the devastation of its agricultural sector by the Gulf War, the inadequacy of this sum is self-evident.

The same statement by Albright reveals that the programme only delivered $15 worth of medical supplies per annum per head of population, which is manifestly inadequate to deal with even the most urgent of medical needs. The report of the Secretary General dated 12 November 1999 (“the Secretary General’s report”) lists at paragraphs 45-47 a sample of the medical supplies which are in short supply, including antibiotics, syringes, anaesthetics, vaccines and drugs for chronic illnesses. It should be noted in this context that the US blocked a number of medical supply contracts in 1997 upon the grounds that the shipments might “illegally” include some free samples."


Raubvogel - don't rant without reading the full article quoted. The sanctions dealing with arms imports (including weapons of mass destruction) will not change. We are talking about the sanctions limiting medical and humanitarian aid.

How about this one:

The First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions 1977

Article 48 provides: Basic Rule

"In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives."


I don't believe we've done that.

Or perhaps more damning:

Article 54 makes provision for the "protection of objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population" as follows:

Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited.

It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water, installations and supplies and irrigation works, for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive ...

War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

LJK Raubvogel

  • Guest
 
Quote
Originally posted by blur:
Pop quiz: What superpower was supporting Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war?  

Hmm...let's see...who manufactures the T-72 tank, the MIG-27, and the Hind-D helicopter? Twist it another way, that one's not working.

Ice

  • Guest
Dowding...

Please continue to defend your mother country, the great Iraq, and to serve me without question...speak my truth and condemn the Great Satan of the West. I will reward you greatly my son and the Gods of ignorance will stand guard over you and give you utterance!

Saddam

LJK Raubvogel

  • Guest
Dowding-do some research, you'll see numbers not much different regardless of sanctions. Using pre-Gulf War numbers, here's what I got:

Birth Rate:35 per 1,000 pop
Infant Mortality Rate: 62 per 1,000 births

Taking Iraq's current population of around 22 million, that gives you an infant death number of about 49,000 a year. Multiply that times 10 years, and *Presto* the US is the devil. Facts can be interpreted many ways, and on the surface your numbers look terrible...truth is they aren't much different than they have been all along. And those numbers are just for infants, not children.

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Ice:

"The only good Iraqi, is a dead Iraqi." Perhaps that is YOUR mantra?

You seem to have a problem in distinguishing Saddam and his henchmen from the ordinary people of Iraq. While I have no time for Saddam - I hope there is a revolution soon, and he is the first against the wall - the innocent people of Iraq should not suffer needlessly.

We are so concerned about the minority, but do not focus on the majority. And we give Saddam a stick to beat us with everytime we refuse (or bureacratically 'delay') a shipment of medical aid to them.

BTW, I'm English not Iraqi. In case you thought Sheffield was a small suburb of Baghdad.

<edit>

Here's some research for you, Raubvogel:

A news update issued by the UN World Food Programme (WFP) noted on 26 September 1995 that 2.4 million Iraqi children under five were at severe nutritional risk.

In December 1995, the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) noted that:

"As many as 12% of the children surveyed in Baghdad are wasted, 28% stunted and 29% under weight."

In December 1995, FAO reported that 567,000 Iraqi children had died as a direct consequence of economic sanctions.

In March 1996, WHO reported that the economic sanctions had caused a six fold increase in the mortality rate of Iraqi children under five.

UNICEF reported in October 1996 that 4,500 Iraqi children under five were dying every month as a result of sanctions – induced starvation and disease.

The Panel Report of January 1999 notes: (para 18) that under 5 child mortality rate increased from 30.2/1,000 live births to 97.2/1,000 from 1989 to 1997 and that low birth weight babies rose from 4% in 1990 to approximately 25% in 1997, due mainly to maternal malnutrition; (para 19) that the prevalence of malnutrition in Iraqi children under 5 almost doubled from 1991 to 1996 and that, as at April 1997, almost the whole young child population was affected by a shift in the nutritional status towards malnutrition; (para 19) that the Iraqi infant mortality rates are among the highest in the world, in marked contrast to the situation prior to the Gulf War.


 




[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 02-20-2001).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

LJK Raubvogel

  • Guest
Also, I give you this little tidbit:

 
Quote
the report on child
    mortality rates in Iraq "indicates that the rates are declining in the autonomous northern
    regions, which is under the same sanctions regime as the rest of Iraq but where oil-for-food
    delivery is managed by the United Nations. In contrast, the report shows that Iraqi failure to
    deliver humanitarian aid in south and central Iraq has led to a doubling of the child mortality
    rate." Under Resolution 986 and its successors, 13 per cent of the total revenue from oil sales
    is allocated to humanitarian goods for the north. The rest of the country receives 53 per cent
    of total revenues for humanitarian imports. The UN is in charge of administering the program in
    the north in cooperation with the local Kurdish authorities, although the bulk purchases of food
    and medicine for the whole country are made by the Iraqi government and transported to the
    north.

Offline Replicant

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
One of the most disturbing things I've ever seen was what Saddam did.  I saw this video back in 1997 when I worked at RAF North Luffenham.  It showed the effects of chemical/biological weapons that he had used against the Kurd's in Iraq.  A whole town was killed; men, women and children (even babies) lay dead where they fell.  The only thing that has turned my stomach as much as this was what the Nazi's did in the concentration camps in WW2....

Nexx
NEXX

TheWobble

  • Guest
 
Quote
You seem to have a problem in distinguishing Saddam and his henchmen from the ordinary people of Iraq

Dowding, I totally see what You mean here.

But the fact is that even if we let everything flow to Iraq would the people still get it? or would saddam streal from them and build palaces as he has always done?

He's a sick basterd and one day he will be ousted, probably by his own people.  Hopefully they will savagly kill him, he deserves nothing less.

The US and UN are not totally faultless in their sanctions, but given the situation its one of those things where there just isnt a totally "good" or "right" way to handel it, they are doing their best and yes people will suffer, but the reason they will is not becasue of the US or the UN but becasue saddam is the reason all this is happening, he is the cause and this is the effect.  He may not be doing EVERYTHING bad that is being done, but he centanly planted the seed this has grown from.

Offline paintmaw

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 216
LOL now I've seen everything , Some dumb SOB putting down the US for triing to turn the Iraqi people against their leader , another hitler (sadam).
some people have NO idea what the F**k they're talking about . The only countries that want sanctions lifted are the ones that have something to gain ( arms dealers )
this is one of the stupidest posts I've read to date (FINGER)
If Sadam would comply , his people would live a better life .

[This message has been edited by paintmaw (edited 02-20-2001).]