Author Topic: I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....  (Read 435 times)

Offline Hamish

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« on: November 11, 2000, 04:19:00 PM »
A new comittee to review all ballots before an election to make sure they are "idiot proof" employing a few hundred thousand people across the country and making for more useless government jobs.

Why not make a standard ballot for all elections approved by all parties? that'd probably require too much co-operation, and  cause more bickering between parties. And i guess it'd make too much sense. That, and it would likely take them forever to agree on one "simple" enough for Palm Beach residents.

Do you think it's a good idea to make a standard ballot across the country? or does that infringe upon the "state/federal" government separation too much?

Hamish!

Offline Nash

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2000, 04:21:00 PM »
That would be probably OK.... *if* there were a seperate ballot for President only. My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that on the same ballot are choices for Senate etc, which are specific to each state.

Offline Hamish

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2000, 04:27:00 PM »
yeah forgot about that part. okay, revise my above post to presidential ballots only  

Edit: maybe not a standard ballot, but a standard format that has specific requirements for names of canidates, and place to "mark" your choice. Then it won't matter who's name is on what, or what exactly your voting for whether it be a pres, senator, congressman, proposition, etc.


Hamish!


[This message has been edited by Hamish (edited 11-11-2000).]

Offline Nash

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2000, 04:47:00 PM »
I think what also needs to be overhauled is the way in which ballots are marked. Perhaps a touch screen, whereupon after you press for your choice, a screen comes up and says "You have selected XX, is this correct?".

The way in which it is now, where you slide yer piece of paper into this slot, pull a lever and have some pin come up and strike a hole through it seems like it might be a bit outdated. Seems like, in many instances, ballots are struck in the wrong place, or in other cases the hole is not punched cleanly or all the way through. Then ya stick that thing into a machine and if it sees *any* ireggularity with that hole, it gets tossed.

The current voting booth? I reckon the only place you'll be seeing it is in the Smithsonian.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 11-11-2000).]

Offline 1776

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2000, 04:58:00 PM »
Ok, I see some real great ideas in this thread.

I would like to add that we should also have volunteers at each polling place to change the diapers of some of these easily confused voters!!!!  Congressman Wexler, I am sure, would be the first to volunteer!!  Perhaps we can get Johnson & Johnson to provide their Depends product line

Offline Hamish

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2000, 05:04:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nash:

The way in which it is now, where you slide yer piece of paper into this slot, pull a lever and have some pin come up and strike a hole through it seems like it might be a bit outdated. Seems like, in many instances, ballots are struck in the wrong place, or in other cases the hole is not punched cleanly or all the way through. Then ya stick that thing into a machine and if it sees *any* ireggularity with that hole, it gets tossed.

The current voting booth? I reckon the only place you'll be seeing it is in the Smithsonian.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 11-11-2000).]

Well, I don't know how they do it in most places, but that does seem to be about the most out-dated piece of **** way of doing it. I hadn't realized some places were still doing it that way. I voted Absentee this year, from California (Yay my county picked Bush by almost 10 %), and the ballot i was sent was very simple, clearly marked with the canidates, and a "punch hole" to the right. It had clear instructions on how to get a new ballot if you messed up on the one you had as well. Naturally, i read the instructions before voting. How did your ballots work?

Hamish!

Offline PC

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2000, 07:34:00 PM »
How about just letting folks read the damn thing????? Maybe we could give away a pack of smokes to people that get it right? Jeez I have about had it with this crap.
PC

Offline 1776

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2000, 07:39:00 PM »
OH!!! PC, how callus of you!!! You are so mean spirited!!!

Guess what? you are correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Rickenbacker

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2000, 10:41:00 PM »
Do you guys pack away _all_ your retards in Palm Beach, or what? I find it hard to believe that only _one_ community in the whole wide US of A misunderstood this form.

Actually, after seeing the form I find it hard to believe that even a complete moron would misunderstand it...



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Offline Eagler

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2000, 11:32:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Rickenbacker:
Do you guys pack away _all_ your retards in Palm Beach, or what? I find it hard to believe that only _one_ community in the whole wide US of A misunderstood this form.

Actually, after seeing the form I find it hard to believe that even a complete moron would misunderstand it...

We call them gorons.. people who want to vote for gore but could not figure out how  

Due to the diversity of minorities in Palm Beach, it was a section of FL which was easy to manipulate for the democrats. All sorts of voting fraud surfacing, from intimidation to busing "voters" to wrong voting districts to campaign volunteers going into poll centers to "assist" voters. All these are documented. It's a crime if this crap gets a count in the end favorable to gore. He'll be quite a leader. Look at the start he has  

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Offline StSanta

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2000, 06:23:00 AM »
Well, it could be confusing, especially if ya got poor eyesight.

That being said, if they got it wrong, it's their own bloody fault. They weren't being denied anything, and there wasn't a deliberate plan to obfuscate the voting.

It's their problem, not someone else's. Like right now the entire American populations problem.

<sigh>



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Offline Fury

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2000, 07:13:00 AM »
Here's a snippet from our local news station here in Hicksville, West Michigan.

"(Ottawa County, November 9th, 2000, 6:45 p.m.) Michigan has five different ballot systems, from optical scan to punch cards to "automated voting machines", even paper ballots and touch-screen computers in some precincts. Since 1992, all Ottawa County voting precincts have had the same optical scan voting system. Ottawa County Clerk Dan Krueger says it's a fast system that helps eliminate confusion. "If you move from Hudsonville to Holland to Grand Haven, it's the same voting system." Krueger was part of an advisory committee that recommended a statewide voting system, but the system would have cost the state at least 35 million dollars. Proposed legislation would force all the clerks in a particular county to agree on the same voting system."

The "optical scan" is what I used.  You have a "broken arrow"  right next to the candidate name that you connect with a felt-tip pen.  The only hard part (that I mentioned elsewhere) was making sure the columns did not continue to the next column (which could end up voting for more than the allowed number of candidates).

I also found this story here:

"Publius.org is election information presented in the most easily recognizable format, the ballot you will most likely see at the polls. It's not just the big elections, but the most comprehensive collection of local Michigan election information anywhere.

Because of the massive amount of information gathered for this feature, a few races or issues may be missing. Please remember, this is not your "official ballot."

The Publius Foundation is a non-partisan, non-profit organization established in 1996 to investigate the effect of advances in information technology on democracy. At the heart of the Publius Foundation, is the belief that informed voter participation in national, state and local elections strengthens our government and is the basis of American democracy.

The centerpiece of Publius.org is the "My Ballot" generator, a revolutionary way to access your ballot before you go to the polls to vote. It generates you local ballot and connects to a central database of campaign websites. Voters who are looking online for information on upcoming elections do not have to hunt for candidate websites, ballot proposals or the issues that pertain to their voting district and precinct.

In 1996, Detroit native, Vincent M. Keenan, came up with the idea after a late-night conversation at the University of Michigan. When he told the idea to his close friend and fellow University of Detroit Jesuit High classmate, Russell Inman, the Publius Foundation was born. The two created the first version of the Publius for major elections in Michigan, Washington D.C. and the city of Ann Arbor.

In 1998 Publius.org gained momentum while forming a relationship with the Michigan chapter of the League of Women Voters, the Michigan Bureau of Elections, and WDIV in Detroit. The roll out of Publius in 1998 was a successful proof-of-concept that gained national attention and quietly recognized Keenan as a vanguard by those involved with the fledgling e-democracy movement.

This year, Publius.org redefines the 2000 "My Ballot" generator with cutting edge technology and more local coverage than ever. WDIV has again teemed up with Publius.org to provide its viewers with the most comprehensive election information available. A new relationship with Grand Rapids' premier television station, WOOD TV8, will expand the scope of the online voter resource to West Michigan.

Publius takes its name from the pseudonym used by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay collectively when they wrote the Federalist Papers. The intent behind using a psuedonym was to allow the reader to focus on the thrust of the arguments, and not feelings about the authors. This sentiment is in keeping with Keenan's insistence on maintaining Publius' impartiality by relying on primary-source campaign information from the candidates.

Vincent M. Keenan is CTO and Russell Inman is the President/CEO of Cobalt, the web application and database development company based in Detroit and Washington D.C. that hosts and maintains Publius.org. The 2000 "My Ballot" generator development team was lead by Jacob Lipman and John Jordan."

This link resulst in a printable ballot that looks almost exactly like the ballot I used.  The arrows that you connect are right next to the candidates name.  (I believe you have to live in Michigan for this to work, any other Michiganians want to give it a try?).

Also I found a copy of rules for using the optical tabulator..it's at this website but be aware that it's pdf format (interactive on my screen):  http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/optech.pdf

I would cut and past but I don't know how...anyway, the rules discuss what is explained to the voter if the ballot cast is defective, unreadable, or spoiled (duplicate, multiple votes, ect)...it's on page 3 and 4 of the pdf doc.  I was in the building when there was a read error, the voter was told about it and asked if he wanted to vote again (he didn't).

The idea of a single format ballot is pretty good...but each ballot contains state and local information, so the only one that would be the same across the country is the Presidential one.

Did anyone else use the optical scan system with felt pens?  I thought it was pretty simple.  I can't seem to find a sample ballot.

Fury

Offline Eagler

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I bet this florida ballot issue gets us.....
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2000, 09:09:00 AM »
Hand counting =  looking at each ballot and determining who the voter "intended" to vote for. It's not counting crap, it's taking errored ballots and placing them into a candidates pile. Since the three in charge of this action are democrats, I think I can figure out the outcome (even if I do live in FL) Did you hear that it was a democrat federal judge who is now reviewing Bush's latest attempt to stop this flawed hand counting process. Wonder how that will turn out? If they count the ballots submitted with errors in FL, why don't they count them nation wide? Typical democrat/liberal thinking, "there isn't truly a right and wrong way to do anything"

Stinks here in FL

Eagler




[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 11-12-2000).]
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