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Author Topic: iran fighter  (Read 3195 times)

Offline ViFF

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« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2006, 03:24:12 PM »
and from another link:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj89/hurley.html

Reports of what happened next vary. It is generally accepted that in the course of the first attack against the Bekaa an 9 June 1982, the IAF destroyed 17 of the 19 Syrian SAM batteries and their radar sites, as well as 29 Syrian Air Force (SAF) fighters, without loss.15 The following day, the IAF destroyed the remaining two missile batteries. The SAF once more challenged the Israelis and lost approximately 35 more aircraft, again without downing an Israeli aircraft. By the end of July, Syria had lost at least 87 aircraft, while Israeli losses amounted to a few helicopters, one RF-4E, and an A-4 Skyhawk downed by a PLO SA-7.

In this article they also forget to mention an IAF Kfir-C2 which was downed by a 30mm ack. The Kfir was damaged and was loosing hydraulics. The pilot managed to fly it out to sea, where he ejected safely, and was picked up by christian militias and returned to Israel.
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #106 on: September 09, 2006, 03:25:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Good to see your first post answering me :)

Soviet hardware is the worst nightmare for US forces. Check Vietnam experience, in Shaw's bible i have read about US pilots scared to death about SAMs, they couldn't do anything.

Best results were usually achieved by Soviet personell, like 64th IAK in Korea, fighting hordes of "UN" planes. Imagine less then 50 MiGs stopping the power of the half of the world... Making 3 (three) passes on a formation of 50 B-29s, shooting down 2 of them and damaging the third...


I don't know if Shaw flew in Vietnam but shortly after I joined the USAF in '73 I saw several films with F4's dodging SAM's. It was pretty much a hard turn left or right with the SAM shooting past where the aircraft had been. I'm sure the pilots were afraid of being shot down as some obviously were but I don't think "scared to death" describes their attitude in regard to SAM's at all.
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #107 on: September 09, 2006, 03:34:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ViFF
Israel is a democratic government, an open society with freedom of speech and media. Because of this (and unlike other countries) we can't keep our losses hidden or classified.


Israel is ranked in 47th place when it comes to freedom of the press.. Not that bad, and sertainly better than your neigbours. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #108 on: September 09, 2006, 03:54:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Israel is ranked in 47th place when it comes to freedom of the press.. Not that bad, and sertainly better than your neigbours. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders


That list is ludicrous at best.


How can you have freedom of the press without freedom of speech? Sweden for example is ranked #12 on that list yet jails people for religious or "hate speech".

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/007645.html
« Last Edit: September 09, 2006, 04:04:44 PM by lukster »
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #109 on: September 09, 2006, 03:54:55 PM »
Israel (occupied territories) is on 121st place, but I guess that doesn't count Nilsen? ;)
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #110 on: September 09, 2006, 03:56:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
That list is ludicrous at best.


Please explain why?
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Offline Debonair

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« Reply #111 on: September 09, 2006, 03:58:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Israel is ranked in 47th place when it comes to freedom of the press.. Not that bad, and sertainly better than your neigbours. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders

USA outranked by Jamaica, but the rankings should be weighted by likelihood of something noteable happening.
"Da PM be smokin a fast one, mon"
is not big news like a worldwide network of secret torture prisons, neither is a scandal like
"PM won't take the whole, asserts authority & take the half regardless"
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Offline Edbert1

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« Reply #112 on: September 09, 2006, 04:00:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda

3) I am on Israeli side now. They are the only nation that completley supports Russia in Chechnya.

I am with you on this subject. Our government's refusal to support you guys in whatever tactics you see appropriate to deal with Islamofascists within your borders is emabrassing to many of us. AFAIC, do whatever you want to wipe these mongrels out.
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #113 on: September 09, 2006, 04:04:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
That list is ludicrous at best.


Why is that? Didnt like the results?
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #114 on: September 09, 2006, 04:06:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Why is that? Didnt like the results?


My addition:

"That list is ludicrous at best.


How can you have freedom of the press without freedom of speech? Sweden for example is ranked #12 on that list yet jails people for religious or "hate speech".

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/007645.html "
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #115 on: September 09, 2006, 04:08:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
My addition:

"That list is ludicrous at best.


How can you have freedom of the press without freedom of speech? Sweden for example is ranked #12 on that list yet jails people for religious or "hate speech".

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/007645.html "


Well... i guess that is because the government does not censor the press or put preassure on them. Freedom of speach is not the same as freedom of the press.
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #116 on: September 09, 2006, 04:11:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Well... i guess that is because the government does not censor the press or put preassure on them. Freedom of speach is not the same as freedom of the press.


Is the press free then to denounce or report otherwise unfavorably on homosexuality in Sweden?





I didn't think so.
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2006, 04:16:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
Is the press free then to denounce or report otherwise unfavorably on homosexuality in Sweden?





I didn't think so.


Im not swedish so i would not know. Cant imagine that they are not allowed to do so tho.. I know any paper here can do as it wishes. Remember the Muhammed drawing thing?

It does not discredit the list in any way. Read about the organisation and what they do. You can ofcourse form your own opinion.
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2006, 04:18:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Im not swedish so i would not know. Cant imagine that they are not allowed to do so tho.. I know any paper here can do as it wishes. Remember the Muhammed drawing thing?

It does not discredit the list in any way. Read about the organisation and what they do. You can ofcourse form your own opinion.


You have only to read the link I posted where it is stated that a preacher was jailed for 30 days in Sweden for saying homosexuality is wrong.

You can't have true freedom of the press without freedom of speech which is why that list is meaningless.
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2006, 04:19:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
Is the press free then to denounce or report otherwise unfavorably on homosexuality in Sweden?


Yes.
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