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Author Topic: Fly an F-4  (Read 859 times)

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2006, 03:01:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Why don't you learn some facts before you talk....  :rolleyes:


I was using a bit of estimation + inflation.  For the filming of the movie Top Gun, the Navy let the studio use F-14s for the price of fuel.  The Navy charged $10,000 per hour per F-14 filmed.

I know the J-79s on the F-4 are smaller, but they are probably less fuel effecient too.  Plus fuel costs have gone up since the late 80s.

So I'm sticking with the answer of $10,000/hr.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2006, 03:31:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I was using a bit of estimation + inflation.  For the filming of the movie Top Gun, the Navy let the studio use F-14s for the price of fuel.  The Navy charged $10,000 per hour per F-14 filmed.

I know the J-79s on the F-4 are smaller, but they are probably less fuel effecient too.  Plus fuel costs have gone up since the late 80s.

So I'm sticking with the answer of $10,000/hr.


Again, provide facts....  :rolleyes:
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2006, 04:09:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I was using a bit of estimation + inflation.  For the filming of the movie Top Gun, the Navy let the studio use F-14s for the price of fuel.  The Navy charged $10,000 per hour per F-14 filmed.

I know the J-79s on the F-4 are smaller, but they are probably less fuel effecient too.  Plus fuel costs have gone up since the late 80s.

So I'm sticking with the answer of $10,000/hr.


That $10,000 an hour probably includes maintenance costs.


Quote
if you're buying jet-a at $3.00/gallon PLEASE let me know where this magical place is.


F-4's burn JP-4, not sure how that equates to Jet-A. (The fuel designation may have changed since I was in the AF) It would be my guess that the US gov't gets a decent discount for buying huge volumes of fuel.
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Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2006, 04:14:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Again, provide facts....  :rolleyes:


Those are facts, validate them yourself if you want.  

I think I get the picture now though.  You must have been some enlisted wrench-turner in the airforce, so you think you know alot about jets.  Just because a janitor cleans toilets doesn't mean hes a hydraulic engineer.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2006, 04:17:05 PM »
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You must have been some enlisted wrench-turner in the airforce, so you think you know alot about jets.


It might surprise you to find out just how much those *enlisted wrench-turners* know about the jets they work on. ;)
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2006, 04:20:47 PM »
Of course, because they're going to tell you how much they know (every chance they get).
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Offline Golfer

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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2006, 04:29:49 PM »
Shrimp I might not agree with the guy about anything but I promise you he is in posession of enough knowledge to make him credible.  Much more than I can say for you using PFM to present conclusions.

Mechanics actually have to know how things work from a mechanical and engineering point of view.  Pilots don't.  You clearly don't.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 04:32:45 PM by Golfer »
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2006, 04:39:04 PM »
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Of course, because they're going to tell you how much they know (every chance they get).


I dont do that and I was one of those enlisted wrench turners you so obviously disdain. ;)

I do provide input on the things I do know as long as I know for sure they are no longer classified. :)
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2006, 06:16:51 PM »
Well, of course bodhi obviously comes across as an aeronautical genius in this thread, with his amazing posts like "Prove it (followed by a smiley face" and "Provide facts (with yet another smiley face)".

Golfer, your posts seem like they are made by a 15 year old kid.  Thats just really how they come across to me.  The reason I say that, is that they contain very little or no useful information.  You mostly just reply that you think the other person is wrong, but never with any contradicting information.

But I guess if I wanted people to think I knew everything about jets and planes, I would act that way too.
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Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2006, 06:18:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
I dont do that and I was one of those enlisted wrench turners you so obviously disdain. ;)

I do provide input on the things I do know as long as I know for sure they are no longer classified. :)


Don't worry elfie, nothing on the Sopwith Camel is classified any longer.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2006, 06:54:09 PM »
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Don't worry elfie, nothing on the Sopwith Camel is classified any longer.


If I had worked on Sopwith Camel's I would probably have arthritis so bad I couldnt type by now, my eyesight would likely be so bad I would be wearing *pop bottle* glasses if not dead already. :D


I did however work on F-4E Phantom II's at Seymour Johnson AFB North Carolina from 81 - 83 and F-15A/B's at Elemendorf AFB Alaska from 83 - 87. My particular line of work was the aircraft weapons system. Which included loading munitions; testing, repair and preventive maintenance of the weapons system.

While working the F-15's I loaded 20mm cannon ammunition, AIM-7 and AIM-9 air to air missles along with 20 lb practice bombs (designation escapes me atm) and 2000 lb GP bombs.

F-4's were another story, I was certified/qualified to load over 30 different munitions including cluster bombs, chemical bombs, small tactical nukes, GP bombs, air to air missiles, air to ground missiles, laser guided bombs and 2.75 in rocket pods.

Also while working F-15's I spent one year in shop maintenance where I was involved in phased inspections, annual gun inspections, base level repairs on missile launchers, bomb racks, pylons and guns.

When I got assigned my own load crew, my crew set a base record for a Combat Turnaround. We loaded 4 missiles, 940 rnds of HEI ammo, removed the 4 missiles, in 13 minutes. AF standard was 45 minutes for that same load. Someone said we set an AF record with that CT but no one was ever able to verify that.

I was also cross trained as an APG (aircraft crew chief) *B-Man* where I assisted in launch/recovery operations including refueling. I even got to launch an F-15 a time or 2.

I was also the first weapons specialist to be qualified for *hot pit* refueling operations at Elmendorf.

While I do have detailed knowledge of the F-4E and F-15A/B weapon systems  my knowledge of other aircraft weapon systems is general in nature. I had to have general knowledge of the weapon system of every aircraft in the USAF inventory for WAPS testing. (promotion testing)

I didnt over do things with this post did I? :D
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Golfer

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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2006, 07:02:06 PM »
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
You mostly just reply that you think the other person is wrong, but never with any contradicting information.


Thats because I don't know what the F4 fuel burn is.  If I did...I would say so.  If I was in fact like you I'd just use PFM and voila...I'd have fuel burn numbers.

I like to use real data and information instead of choosing to rely on PFM for my information.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2006, 07:08:13 PM »
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Well, of course bodhi obviously comes across as an aeronautical genius in this thread,


While I dont know all of Bodhi's qualifications, I do know that he runs his own buisiness doing restoration work on warbirds. So he definately has more aeronautical knowledge than your average Joe.
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2006, 08:52:57 PM »
Calculating for inflation, and using information provided for the maintence and flying cost the of F4 Phantom (from this site http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/F-4_Phantom_II#Costs), to fly an hour in the F-4 Phantom would cost $8,752.

Though this site lists the 1980s cost (for just the fuel) of filming the F-14s in Topgun as $7,600/hr.

Quote
The Navy made available to the film makers technical advisers; about 20 fighter pilots; the aircraft carriers U.S.S. Enterprise and U.S.S. Ranger; Miramar Naval Air Station at San Diego, and a small fleet of $37 million F-14 jets, charging, Mr. Scott said, only for the planes' fuel - $7,600 for each hour in the air.


That cost, extrapolated for todays inflation, would be $12,776/hr.

So theres the figures bodhi and golfer.  I think I might go ahead and start pretending to be an airplane expert on this board too.
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Offline Golfer

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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2006, 11:54:39 PM »
how'd I get dragged into this?  All I did was say don't use PFM to gather numbers.  I didn't say your estimates were that far off since I have no data.
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