9/11 through Arab and Iranian Eyes

[StSanta]

Originally posted by bj229r
Heck, a healthy % of those in Western Europe believe the same

Sources? What is a 'healthy %'? How high is this number?

Look, my American friends. I am just a wee bit tired of this tirade that Europe is anti-American. There are anti-Americans here; there are a good deal that think the Iraqi war was a huge mistake. There are anti-Americans in the US and there are lots of Americans who think the Iraqi war as a big mistake.

When you say "Europe", you include all the nations in Europe. Take Denmark - sent an AWACS unit to the US following 9/11. Went into - and still is in - Afghanistan. We're taking casualties there.

Went into - and are still in - Iraq. We're taking casualties there too.

I got friends who're either in those two nations or have done a couple of tours there. At least ave the common decency not to spit at their sacrifices, in direct aid of the US, by painting with the large brush of the "Europe" ignorant statement.

We've been involved from the start and we're still there, despite growing misgivings about Mr. Bush and his abilities as a leader. We've stood our ground so how about giving us some credit for that?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Well, the problem is that the only OUTSPOKEN element of Europe seems to be 100% critical of the U.S. Evidently we don't get to see what you do. Maybe it is not unlike the coverage of Iraq, which is obviously biased towards the bad news from there, with little good news getting out. The same may be true of Europe. It might be true that Europe is more supportive of the U.S. than we are seeing. Perhaps those who are supportive that you speak of should be more outspoken, and not allow their voices and opinions to be overshadowed by the others.

[soda72]

Originally posted by bj229r
Heck, a healthy % of those in Western Europe believe the same

[bj229r]

Originally posted by StSanta
Sources? What is a 'healthy %'? How high is this number?

Look, my American friends. I am just a wee bit tired of this tirade that Europe is anti-American. There are anti-Americans here; there are a good deal that think the Iraqi war was a huge mistake. There are anti-Americans in the US and there are lots of Americans who think the Iraqi war as a big mistake.

When you say "Europe", you include all the nations in Europe. Take Denmark - sent an AWACS unit to the US following 9/11. Went into - and still is in - Afghanistan. We're taking casualties there.

Went into - and are still in - Iraq. We're taking casualties there too.

I got friends who're either in those two nations or have done a couple of tours there. At least ave the common decency not to spit at their sacrifices, in direct aid of the US, by painting with the large brush of the "Europe" ignorant statement.

We've been involved from the start and we're still there, despite growing misgivings about Mr. Bush and his abilities as a leader. We've stood our ground so how about giving us some credit for that?

NOP also found a tendency for British Muslims to believe some, well, strange things. 45% thought that 9/11 was a conspiracy between the USA and Israel. 36% thought that Princess Diana was murdered to stop her marrying a Muslim. More seriously, only 29% thought that the holocaust occured, 2% denied it happened entirely, 17% think it was exaggerated (which is the stance proposed by most of today’s holocaust deniers), 24% said they had “no opinion” and 23% didn’t know what the holocaust was. Again though, putting this in context, non-Muslims think odd things too - an ICM poll in 2004 found 14% of people in the UK thought that the scale of the holocaust had been exaggerated, 27% of the general public told NOP in 2003 that Princess Diana had been murdered (a poll commissioned, unsurprisingly, for the Sunday Express). I can’t find a British poll on whether 9/11 was a US conspriracy, but I have little doubt that a substantial minority would say it was. Yes, a minority of Muslims believe bizarre things, but then a minority of non-Muslims do too!

http://www.ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

A 2003 poll for the German newspaper Die Zeit found that 19 per cent of those surveyed believed the American government might have ‘commissioned’ the 9/11 attacks, rising to a third among those aged under 30. A recent article in The Times (London) – which argued that ‘you don’t have to be a conspiracy nut to see that the official account published by the 9/11 Commission is full of gaps’ – rehearsed a list of fishy things about 9/11: ‘the absence of Mayday distress signals, the failure to find the black-box flight recorders for the WTC aircraft, the apparent disappearance of the wreckage, the failure to carry out a full engineering investigation into why the towers collapsed so fast, and the failure to scramble military aircraft to intercept the hijacked aircraft.’

Books including Thierry Meyssan’s The Horrifying Fraud and Mathias Brockers’ Conspiracies, Conspiracy Theories and the Secrets of 9/11 have become worldwide bestsellers

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1604/

7/7 bombings 'justified' say a quarter of British Muslims

ALMOST a quarter of British Muslims say the 7/7 bombings can be justified because of the Government's support for the war on terror, according to an opinion poll.

And nearly half of those polled, or 45 per cent, believe the 9/11 attacks on New York were a conspiracy between the United States and Israel. The survey, for a Channel 4 Dispatches documentary to be screened tonight, found Muslims under 24 were twice as likely to justify the 7/7 attacks as those aged over 45. It found 24 per cent either agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified, although 48 per cent said they "strongly disagreed".

A third of those questioned said they would rather live under Sharia law in the UK than British law.

The survey also reveals concerns among Muslims about Britain's moral standards, with 40 per cent saying it is a country of bad moral behaviour.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1145782006

August 30, 2004
An Astounding Poll Regarding 9/11    9/11, "War On Terror"

A poll conducted last week in New York produced some startling findings.

Question: "Some have argued that some leaders in the US government knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to take action. Do you agree or disagree with this argument?" [My emphasis]

Half (49.3%) of NYC residents, and 41% of NY residents state-wide, said they agreed.

The poll, commissioned by 911truth.org, broke down the state-wide numbers by age, race, gender, political party, etc.:

http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2004/08/an_astounding_p_1.htm

[straffo]

Originally posted by Seagoon
For those of you still interested in what the Muslim reaction was to 9/11, Memri has put together a 43 minute video documentary narrated by Ron Silver and PDF entitled "The Arab and Iranian Reaction to 9/11 5 years later"
 

Why the confusion between muslim and arabs ?

Not all muslim are arabs.

Not all arabs are muslim.

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by straffo
Why the confusion between muslim and arabs ?

Not all muslim are arabs.

Not all arabs are muslim.

Probably because most Americans know bloody little about arabs OR muslims?  They are all strange brown people who are worth maybe 1/10th of an American, judging by the actions of our military.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by straffo
Why the confusion between muslim and arabs ?

Not all muslim are arabs.

Not all arabs are muslim.

I think all the people in the video with their *conspiracy theories* are either Arab or Iranian. I dont recall anyone else from the 30 minutes that I watched. Could be someone other than an Iranian or Arab in the final 13 minutes. I kinda doubt it though based on what I saw in the first 30 minutes.

[WilldCrd]

i apreciate the post seagoon. i also totally agree with you.
Its to late in the evening (12:45am) to really wade into the current argument. however tomarrow morning is a new day!

[Seagoon]

Hi Straffo,

Originally posted by straffo
Why the confusion between muslim and arabs ?

Not all muslim are arabs.

Not all arabs are muslim.

Sigh.

Quite right, and during WW2 not all Germans were Nazis and not all Nazis were German, it was wrong for the Allies to go around generalizing and creating a bogeyman of an ideology. We should have followed current practice back then, declared a limited "war on the military" and strictly avoided demonizing an entire nation or National Socialism itself. War on fascism indeed. After all, the Fascists in Spain never attacked us. You can't declare war on an ideology after all, even if that ideology has been aggressively waging war against every other ideology for oh, say 13 centuries.

And we should all wait with baited breath for the flood of Middle Eastern documentaries and talk shows expressing strong condemnation of the Jihadis and admitting that the attacks were entirely planned and carried out by Muslim terrorists and had no credible Israeli/American conspiracy element. And then we can also expect Sharia laws to be eliminated, and Britney Spears to do a concert in Riyadh. Meanwhile while we wait, lets conclude that we are the problem, withdraw entirely from the middle-east and dismantle our admittedly half-baked war on terror thing and trust that they will suddenly be overwhelmed with compassion because we've shown our tender and vulnerable side and call it quits on the whole Jihad, Shahid,  and Caliphate thing. It's because we haven't loved them enough or sent enough money their way, probably. I understand that was the problem with the Vikings as well, not enough love and tenderness that and bad potty training experiences.

Anyway, here's the ethnic religious breakdown of the main countries whose media is surveyed in the Memri documentary, it was obviously wrong of me to even superficially Connect Arab and Iranian media with Muslims, after all somewhere in one of those stations a Hindu might have been operating a boom, or a Christian might have been sweeping up the trash.

Saudi Arabia - Arab: 100% Muslim
Egypt - Egyptian/Arab: 90% Muslim
Syria - Arab: 90% Muslim
UAE - Arab: 96% Muslim
Iran - Persian: 98% Muslim
Qatar - Arab: 95% Muslim
Turkey - Turkic: 99.8% Muslim
Bahrain - Arab: 81% Muslim

Straffo, if you do happen to spot any non-Muslims being interviewed in any of the actual clips, please feel free to go ahead and point them out.

- SEAGOON

[Momus--]

Seagoon,

Hitler had the second biggest industrial base and the best trained and equipped land and air forces in the world in 1938, whereas the jihadis are reduced to assymetrical warfare precisely because they are so weak. Could you include that piece of perspective next time you compare yourself to Churchill?

Simple question for you whilst we're at it. Do you believe in a people's right of self-determination? Yes or no will do.

[lukster]

Seagoon will have his own answer but I'd like to give you mine. When a people's "self-determination" means forcibly converting me to Islam resorting even to terrorism to accomplish that goal then not only would I deny them this right but even the right to breathe.

Do you think Germany, Japan, and a few others had the right to "self-determination" in the 1930's and 1940's even though it meant denying others the same?

Originally posted by Momus--
Seagoon,

Hitler had the second biggest industrial base and the best trained and equipped land and air forces in the world in 1938, whereas the jihadis are reduced to assymetrical warfare precisely because they are so weak. Could you include that piece of perspective next time you compare yourself to Churchill?

Simple question for you whilst we're at it. Do you believe in a people's right of self-determination? Yes or no will do.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Momus--
Seagoon,

Hitler had the second biggest industrial base and the best trained and equipped land and air forces in the world in 1938, whereas the jihadis are reduced to assymetrical warfare precisely because they are so weak. Could you include that piece of perspective next time you compare yourself to Churchill?

Simple question for you whilst we're at it. Do you believe in a people's right of self-determination? Yes or no will do.

Ah yes, the classic "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" argument. More moral equivalence crap. Freedom fighters will attack the military and govenrment complex that opresses them. Terrorists will slaughter innocents at every opportunity.

Simple question. Do you understand that the "caliphate" and "sharia law" allow for no "self determination", and do you understand that the Islamic Fascist terrorists intend to establish BOTH, worldwide?

[lazs2]

sooo....  when the iraqi's were allowed to vote... how many didn't, even tho it was not just inconvienient but... dangerous?

People do indeed have the right to self determination... people have inalienable rights that no man can take from them.

It matters not if a man gets into power or how he got there, he has no right to take away others human rights.

Self determination is not the ability to take away some other persons human rights at the point of a gun.

It is also fair to say that allmost all arabs/arab countries are muslims.  

lazs

[Momus--]

Nice straw man you've got there Virgil.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Momus--
Nice straw man you've got there Virgil.

Nice dodge you have. That thing got a Hemi?