Author Topic: Wow can't cry in court?  (Read 1156 times)

Offline GtoRA2

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Wow can't cry in court?
« on: September 13, 2006, 12:15:19 PM »
This is dumbfounding, somehow wrong for a mother to show emotion when testifying about her children’s murder?

Read here

BARTOW, Florida (Court TV) -- Warned by the judge that tears could trigger a mistrial, a mother was stoic in front of a Florida jury Tuesday as she relived the day she discovered the bloodied bodies of her children.

Nicoletta Dosso was the first person to come upon the bloody crime scene where her children, Frank Dosso, 35, and Diane Patisso, 28, were shot to death.

In the same office where her son lay dead in a pool of blood from gunshot wounds to the head, Nicoletta Dosso also discovered her daughter's husband, George Patisso, 26, slumped against the body of 68-year-old George Gonsalves, her husband's business partner.

Dressed from head to toe in black, the grieving mother had barely taken her seat in the witness box Tuesday before she began stifling sobs while family members and friends sat red-eyed in the gallery holding tissue boxes.

The emotional display prompted a swift response from lawyers representing the defendant, Nelson Serrano, who faces the death penalty if convicted of four counts of first-degree murder.

"Mrs. Dosso's role in this case is more emotional than any witness identification situation I can imagine," defense lawyer Robert Norgard told the court after the jury was quickly rushed out of the room. "If she breaks down in front of the jury, we will ask for a mistrial."

Fears of juror bias
Circuit Judge Susan Roberts agreed that an emotional display would unfairly bias the jurors against the defendant, and issued a stern warning to the prosecutor and, indirectly, to the witness and her family.

"If she gets emotional, I will grant a motion for a mistrial," Roberts said, eliciting emphatic headshakes from Dosso's friends and family. "If [the prosecutor] wants to put her on the stand with that in mind, he may do so."

In a compromise, both sides agreed to let the witness give her testimony outside the presence of the jury and then play a video of the testimony for the jury if it was deemed "unemotional" enough.

As a result, the Sicilian-born mother of three offered a sanitized version of the events that took place on December 3, 1997.

Nicoletta Dosso said she and her husband were supposed to go to their son's home that evening for coffee and cake to celebrate his twin daughters' 10th birthday.

At about 6 p.m., Frank Dosso's wife called to say he had not returned home.

They went to look for him at the Bartow office of Erie Manufacturing and Garment Conveyor Systems, where Frank Dosso worked for his father's business. Nicoletta was the first to come upon her daughter's body, lying in a pool of blood.

'My God, what did they do?'
"I went down and I said, 'My God what they do? I don't know who did this to you, Diane,'" the witness said in an Italian accent.

As she continued through the offices, she saw George Gonsalves' foot sticking out of her son's office, and discovered the bodies of the three other men inside.

"I wanted to hug [Frank], but I could not. I did not want to touch the dead," she said, her voice restrained. "I don't want to spoil. I knew that was even worse for me to do."

The widow of Frank Dosso received the same cautionary instructions about her composure before she did her own run through outside the presence of the jury.

Maria Dosso Jacoby testified that she and her three daughters waited for Frank Dosso to return home that night with Chinese take-out.

Anxious for an answer, she left her three daughters at home with a friend and drove to Erie's offices with George Gonsalves' wife, Inocencia.

"There was already crime-scene tape, there was an ambulance," testified Maria Dosso Jacoby, who has remarried since her husband's death.

"Did your husbands have any enemies or people that might want to injure him?" assistant state attorney John Aguero asked Jacoby.

"No," Jacoby said, without betraying any emotion.

Atlanta alibi
Polk County prosecutors contend that Serrano, 67, went to Erie Manufacturing to kill Gonsalves, who had removed Serrano from his position as president of Garment Conveyor Systems and cut his salary. He killed the others, they say, so there would be no witnesses. (Full coverage)

Serrano's lawyers claim evidence places their client in Atlanta the day of the shootings. They also point to a lack of forensic evidence linking the Ecuadorian native to the crime scene.

Earlier Tuesday, several Erie employees testified about the acrimonious relationship between Serrano and his partners, Gonsalves and Phil Dosso, the husband of Nicoletta Dosso and the father of Frank and Diane.

Before Serrano left the company in July 1997, former employee Todd White testified Tuesday that Serrano asked him to leave Erie and join him in a new company he was starting.

"I told him I wasn't comfortable leaving, and at that point he proceeded to become very disgruntled and very upset," testified White, who left Erie in 1999. "He kept saying things like, 'If you choose not to, I think you'll be sorry, because I plan to see this company fail. I guarantee you this company will fail.'"

Phil Dosso is expected to testify Wednesday and provide further details of the turmoil between the partners that preceded Serrano's departure six months before the shootings.

Offline ChickenHawk

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2006, 02:30:07 PM »
Welcome to Bartow Florida, population 15,340.

"Where only Vulcans need testify in court."
Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence, fear, ignorance or stupidity, because there are millions more garden variety idiots walking around in the world than there are blackhearted Machiavellis.

Offline Masherbrum

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2006, 02:51:42 PM »
It's not HER FAULT that Nelson murdered her son and daughter.
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Offline Nifty

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2006, 03:07:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
It's not HER FAULT that Nelson murdered her son and daughter.

Allegedly murdered. I think this country still officially goes by innocent until proven guilty.

I can see the judge's opinion though. Think about it. Her grief in no way shape or form can attribute guilt or innocence to the defendant in the case. Her crying on the stand provides no evidence or facts as to who committed the murders. On the other hand, a juror should be able to realize that as well, and concentrate solely on the facts she presents.

Now, once someone (whether it's the defendant or someone else) is proven guilty in the case, her anguish should have influence in the sentencing of the guilty.
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Offline NATEDOG

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2006, 03:16:37 PM »
reminds me of the Menedez brothers... at their first trial, they cried on the stand talking about how their parents abused them... ended in a hung jury..
in the second trial, they weren't allowed to cry, the jury thought they were cold and evil, and they got max time.

Offline Masherbrum

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2006, 03:19:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nifty
Allegedly murdered. I think this country still officially goes by innocent until proven guilty.

I can see the judge's opinion though. Think about it. Her grief in no way shape or form can attribute guilt or innocence to the defendant in the case. Her crying on the stand provides no evidence or facts as to who committed the murders. On the other hand, a juror should be able to realize that as well, and concentrate solely on the facts she presents.

Now, once someone (whether it's the defendant or someone else) is proven guilty in the case, her anguish should have influence in the sentencing of the guilty.


Put yourself in HER SHOES and do your damndest not to cry.   Of course he "allegedly murdered" them, I know the US Constitution.   It's kinda like when a Pakistani Doctor here in Plymouth, MI butchered and discarded his wife's body parts in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.   Of course he was "Innocent", he committed the worst crime that someone in Michigan can receive, "Mayhem".    He's serving Life without Parole.   My point in all of this?  Some cases are a "slam dunk".   There was a reason I left out "allegedly" in my post as this is another example of a slam dunk.
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Offline simshell

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2006, 03:23:07 PM »
ok let someone shoot and murder your 2 sons and then be told you cant express to much emtion now


never have i seen somthing so inhuman in the court system of lawyers and judges


Mother "will there i came up to my 2 dead sons and :cry"

Lawyer  "WAIT JUDGE BIAS DISSMISS NOW THEY DID NOT DO IT BECAUSE SHE IS CRYING"




Lawyer"cool guys i got you off easily:t "
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Offline straffo

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2006, 03:44:13 PM »
can some one explain me how the judge are selected ?

Offline Engine

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2006, 04:07:11 PM »
You'd all feel very differently if you were the defendant, you didn't commit this crime, and you had this sobbing mother on the stand and a jury angrily glaring at you.

While she is entitled to her grief, her grief alone should not be used as a tool to assign guilt. I didn't hear anything in what she said that could help find a killer, only material which encourages sympathy and a desire to punish.

Offline Shuckins

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2006, 04:45:28 PM »
Straffo, local and county judges are often elected to office.  Higher level judges, such as those of appeals courts and state supreme courts, are usually appointed by the governor of the state.  However, there is variation from state to state.

Offline Elfie

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2006, 04:54:31 PM »
We're talking about a woman here......a grief stricken woman.......what do women do when they are upset? Anyone?



They cry. It's like asking the grass to not grow, or the sun to not come up.
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Offline Goth

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2006, 06:01:26 PM »
Maybe I've seen one to many Perry Mason episodes, or have watched Boston Legal too much, and I have no law degree so what I say is pure speculation on my part using only common sense.

Seems to me that the Judge should have instructed the jury not to let the mothers emotion taint their judgement. I don't see how he/she can rule that the woman testify without emotion, that's just rediculous.

I dunno, that's just my 2 cents.

Offline Yeager

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2006, 06:03:56 PM »
The best way to deal with the justice system is to stay as far away from it as is humanly possible.

I'm reminded of that great song from the 60s
"Its my trial and I'll cry if I want to"
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Offline dhaus

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2006, 07:51:27 PM »
The difficulty here is that giving jury instructions is like trying to unring a bell.  No doubt this is exactly the result the prosecutor would like.  And, as said above, this stage of the trial is to determine whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty.  Exactly what about her testimony establishes whether or not the defendant committed the crime?  What about her tears and grief places the defendant at the murder scene at the time of the murder?  Or gives a motive, etc. etc.  Nothing.  You are on trial for a crime you did not commit.  Do you really want a jury watching the grieving family on the stand, barely able to talk through their tears about how their dead family members were found?  Is it really reassuring to you that the jury will be instructed to render a verdict based on the facts and not emotion?  Assuming you could GET such an instruction?  On the other hand, once guilt is established, her testimony, complete with grief and tears, should be presented for purposes of determining the sentence.

Offline straffo

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Wow can't cry in court?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2006, 11:44:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Straffo, local and county judges are often elected to office.  Higher level judges, such as those of appeals courts and state supreme courts, are usually appointed by the governor of the state.  However, there is variation from state to state.


Ok, and they are choosen among the whole population or there is some legal prerequisite ?