Author Topic: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates  (Read 35658 times)

Offline Knite

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New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates
« Reply #885 on: September 22, 2006, 07:38:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
What is HTC waiting for? Tweak already.
There are very legitimate complaints about the ENY and cap issues.
Why are we left to bash it out among ourselves?  HT can fix some of it at the drop of a hat all by his self?
:D [/B]


Actually Mugzeee, I can see a couple of reasons why HT is not doing "tweaks".

#1. When fixing cars, computers, or anything with multiple complicated parts, you do not "tweak" right after a repair or parts change. The proper way to do it is "break in" or "burn in" that part, wait a while to see how everything settles, THEN tweak it. Things are obviously not settled.

#2. My guess here is that "bashing it out amongst ourselves" is what HT WANTS. As any good business owner, he made a decision based on information he had available at the time, and his own slant on what would be good for his company. This is that decision. He made changes to his product in the hopes of improving his product, purposefully. It is his sports league, and he changed the rules to how it is to be played. Either we adjust, or we are no longer a member of the league. Look at sports. The league makes rules. The players either play with the new rules, or they get themselves in so much trouble, no team wants to deal with them. The league doesn't go back and remove those new restrictions.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #886 on: September 22, 2006, 07:56:54 AM »
said I was done with this thread cause there was nothing left to be said...

Just the same guys making the same points over and over....  Mine and theirs...

I was wrong.   falconwing made a huge new point..  when he explained to us all why mega squads full of newbies was bad...  We suspected the reason... we all knew that they cut off the new guys from ever learning anything...  heck... we could look at their stats and watch em get worse the longer they were in the mega squad or... at least.... no better.

but now....  the rule.... The "rule" comes out....

I am sure that by now, most of us who are not clollapsed in fits of laughter over "the rule" are shaking their head in disgust and walking away...

How lame would a player have to be to sign onto a squad that wouldn't allow him to react with the community?   one that cut him off from all but 90 or so of his fellow cult members?

I can see how the new guy might get sucked in... he shows up at the airport new and confused and insecure about how he will do....

A few cult members smile at him and say "welcome friend.. we don't care how lame you are we love you and will teach and nurture you with 90 other friends."

They tell him that the other 5000 are evil and infected and he is to stay away from them...   That they have evil ways and are barbarians who fritter away their AH lives not for the good of the all holy dildo shaped chess piece.   They lock him in a room surrounded by smiling squadies and threaten to kick him out of the squad if.....

He changes countries....

This is one of the most pathetic things I have seen in AH but... it explains a lot.   I am glad that the arenas make this less effective now... last night when we were having a good fite, a wing of this mega squad showed up to "help"  they turned it into an angry vultch fest where their numbers, with ours, were steamrolling better players...

Good thing was... in these new arenas... we talked to the other side and agreed to meet between two new fields and leave the mega squad to milkrun the field and fight over the scraps of any red guys dumb enough to play their game.

We had fun in a way that we couldn't have in the old MA...

Thanks HT... this was a good thing.

lazs
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Offline zorstorer

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« Reply #887 on: September 22, 2006, 08:21:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
said I was done with this thread cause there was nothing left to be said...

Just the same guys making the same points over and over....  Mine and theirs...

I was wrong.   falconwing made a huge new point..  when he explained to us all why mega squads full of newbies was bad...  We suspected the reason... we all knew that they cut off the new guys from ever learning anything...  heck... we could look at their stats and watch em get worse the longer they were in the mega squad or... at least.... no better.

but now....  the rule.... The "rule" comes out....

I am sure that by now, most of us who are not clollapsed in fits of laughter over "the rule" are shaking their head in disgust and walking away...

How lame would a player have to be to sign onto a squad that wouldn't allow him to react with the community?   one that cut him off from all but 90 or so of his fellow cult members?

I can see how the new guy might get sucked in... he shows up at the airport new and confused and insecure about how he will do....

A few cult members smile at him and say "welcome friend.. we don't care how lame you are we love you and will teach and nurture you with 90 other friends."

They tell him that the other 5000 are evil and infected and he is to stay away from them...   That they have evil ways and are barbarians who fritter away their AH lives not for the good of the all holy dildo shaped chess piece.   They lock him in a room surrounded by smiling squadies and threaten to kick him out of the squad if.....

He changes countries....

This is one of the most pathetic things I have seen in AH but... it explains a lot.   I am glad that the arenas make this less effective now... last night when we were having a good fite, a wing of this mega squad showed up to "help"  they turned it into an angry vultch fest where their numbers, with ours, were steamrolling better players...

Good thing was... in these new arenas... we talked to the other side and agreed to meet between two new fields and leave the mega squad to milkrun the field and fight over the scraps of any red guys dumb enough to play their game.

We had fun in a way that we couldn't have in the old MA...

Thanks HT... this was a good thing.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's



lol laz you must truely have a vile black soul if you even have one :aok

Offline hitech

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« Reply #888 on: September 22, 2006, 08:30:27 AM »
FrodeMk3: We have posted our resones, the resone you didn't get a respons is because we allready told you why we did the change.

Hence any other resone thought of like your CT balogna is atomaticly false.

Put it this way.
1. some one wants to say I think hitech changed it because it rained that day.

Am I realy suposed to denie every case, when we already stated the 1 case why we did change it.

And just so you know that was a ratorical question.

Offline Flayed1

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« Reply #889 on: September 22, 2006, 08:40:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know falc...  I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He  calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"




    You have that allllll wrong there Lazs...  That is my squad nose art that I made for my wing (Bomber wing) of the BOP's.......  I did this after you guys kept calling us bomber guys FUN POLICE.  It was origanally done in fun not to mention it really looks good on out planes. We never intentionally went around killing hangers for the fun of it, we did it to take a base or defend a base next to the one we bombed.

  If we were really the Fun Police we would have bombed your nice little Fighter town into oblivion just for the fun of it or other such activities.  

  Though I must admit that some of your more inflamitory posts have made me want to do such things, I have refrained from doing them because others in the game don't deserve such bombings. :)

 And yes Falc does use the nose art as his avitar as do I but it's more in fun and we find it a bit amusing only you seem to take it as an offence lol, lighten up man ;)

  In the future would you please get your facts straight befor posting....


EDIT:   Now that I think of it I need to revise the art a bit.....  The fine print in black says MA COUNTY.....   Gotta figure out what to change that to.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 08:45:06 AM by Flayed1 »
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Offline Edbert

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« Reply #890 on: September 22, 2006, 08:52:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by zorstorer
lol laz you must truely have a vile black soul if you even have one :aok

You obviously don't know Lazs, other than from his posts here, similar to him not knowing falc other than from his posts here. This is all so silly guys, I agree with the kindergarten comment made earlier. I have seen two BBS-warriors threaten bodilly harm when they meet at a convention (Waffle & Hub, ya'll listeneing?) yet when they meet in person they discover they are not evil, and in possesion of a "black soul", they share a beer (or ten), have a laugh (or 100) and move on with life. It (life) is too short, and AH is too fun to get yourselves all riled up like this guys!

Lazs does not have a black soul, you are being silly. Although I am starting to wonder about his apparent...ummmm...fascinatio n with the shape of the Bish icon...maybe that is why he was flying for the bish in the EW last night....hmmmmm.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #891 on: September 22, 2006, 09:00:12 AM »
nooo.. you have it wrong...  I was never offended.  I thought your avatar was very accurate and descriptive.

I was just pointing out one more of the mega squad hypocracies in that if they say something offensive it is all in good fun but anything directed at them and the holy dildo shaped chess piece is some sort of bannable offence tandamont to sacralige.

I will point out also that any squad that will not switch sides in order to make for good gameplay....

well.... anything they say about good gameplay is meaningless.

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Offline thndregg

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« Reply #892 on: September 22, 2006, 09:10:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
...fascination with the shape of the Bish icon...maybe that is why he was flying for the bish in the EW last night....hmmmmm.


When he changed from a knit, that piece must've required surgical removal.
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Offline Donzo

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« Reply #893 on: September 22, 2006, 09:15:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I am sure that by now, most of us who are not clollapsed in fits of laughter over "the rule" are shaking their head in disgust and walking away...

How lame would a player have to be to sign onto a squad that wouldn't allow him to react with the community?   one that cut him off from all but 90 or so of his fellow cult members?


The one thing you fail to grasp is that given this rule, Bish are our community.  And I think that there are probably more than just "90 or so" Bish.  In other words, we are not cut off from the entire Bish community...as you imply.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #894 on: September 22, 2006, 09:40:12 AM »
So, I log into the mid war arena. 32 people on, should be enough to find a fight.

Not a single enemy aircraft airborn. Not a single enemy radar bar anywhere.

Why not? Back when AH was CK and WB, 32 people was a party in the arena. So what's the diff? The arenas pretty much suck as they are now. Here's what's wrong:

The fields are too far apart. It takes 20 min to fly from one field to another, and if you set angle trim to climb from one field to another, you can be at 20k before you get to the other field. Way back when WB was really fun with fewer people, you could barely get to 12k in a straight climb field to field. People could log in and find a fight instantly. No motoring around wondering where everyone was. If you're going to fragment the arenas, move the fields closer.

Terrain is too boring. Back in the day, especially before CK became WB and right after AH spawned from WB, there was ALWAYS interesting terrain. Fields were up on mountains, there were canyons to fight in, rivers to fly up that lead through canyons to fields either hidden in the canyon or fields up on flat-topped mountains, volcanoes placed right between two fields that were just a bit closer to each other than other fields, etc. In other words, the terrain was designed to gather people to interesting places to fight. The terrains now... BORING. Flat flat flat, big oceans, occasional hills, all fields within a couple thousand feet of sea level. No 7k fields, no deep valleys, no volcanoes in central fight areas. Boring as hell. Might as well hop in a tank and drive or hop in a buff and go make dinner during climbout. Boooooring.

Heavy flak. HT explained during the conference what affects ack accuracy... Basically there is no real ack model, just a random bubble around your plane that expands or contracts based on your speed and G level. So if you're a hell of a long way from a fleet or field with heavy ack, even though the ballistic time of flight may be 20 seconds so a maneuver every 19 seconds should TOTALLY defeat any aimed flak, if you're not flying very very fast or maneuvering hard all the time, chances are the flak is going to kill you no matter what you do. Heck, even if you're maneuvering hard, it's still a kill bubble around your plane, not the ack shooting at where the gunners thought you would be one time of flight later after pulling the trigger. It's FAKE and everyone knows it, feels it instinctively because it's WRONG, so they adjust game play to avoid flak by flying low or avoiding areas between fields. Guess what, since fields are so far apart, that means that everyone flies to areas where the enemy is not going to be. That degrades gameplay especially when there are fewer players in the arena.

This kind of post got me banned 4 years ago, but with the recent arena changes it's time for me to post what every player who cares about AIR COMBAT feels is wrong about the game. It takes too long to find a fight, the terrain is boring and doesn't enhance fights, and the damn heavy flak interferes with air combat.

It's an easy fix... Move the fields closer (makes sense now that the arenas have fewer players), use deep canyons, put fields up on hills, and put in some volcanoes to fight in/around, and either tone down the flak or put in a real aimed flak model that reflects aircraft maneuvers during the actual time of flight of the flak rounds. That will go a hell of a long way to keep players fighting each other instead of complaining about how the arenas suck.
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Offline NHawk

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« Reply #895 on: September 22, 2006, 10:11:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
So, I log into the mid war arena. 32 people on, should be enough to find a fight.

Not a single enemy aircraft airborn. Not a single enemy radar bar anywhere.....
I'll give you my personal reasons...

When I log on I look at the situation. I see a GV attack at a base with no aircraft anywhere in sight on dar and up in a panzer or tiger. I engage two or three enemy vehicles and usually successfully defend the base. Next thing you know, there are not only two or three enemy vehicles coming back to me but there are also two to six heavy aircraft.

I don't mind having a ground battle, or an air battle. But to up that type of offense against a single person is just plain ridiculous. I refuse to even launch into that kind of situation. I just sit in the tower amazed that people think that's fun.

Actual situation from a few minutes ago...

Bishops - 0
Knights - 1 (me)
Rooks - 10

Single panzer heading to base. Single 190 overhead. Get one shot off on panzer and he kills me. I return to town, 190 headed home. Panzer in town, M3 and another panzer otw. Kill panzer in town. Set up for incoming gvs. Check map... 5 radar contacts inbound, plus I assume the panzer I killed is also coming back. I die from 110 bombing my panzer.

So, that's 8 of the Rooks online attacking one person defending a base. Sorry, not my idea of fun.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 10:19:59 AM by NHawk »
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Offline gatt

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« Reply #896 on: September 22, 2006, 12:21:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 4510
Arena CAP Limits
ENY


I'd add lack of aircraft types to fill 3 arenas, mainly EWA, as well.

Anyway, just to beat again the dead horse: if you take away the arena caps everybody will go and play in the arena with the biggest numbers and leave the other two almost empty. HTC is forcing customers to play in a new way, not asking what customers actually want.

It would be nice to see a poll about the whole thing.
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Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #897 on: September 22, 2006, 12:29:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
I'd add lack of aircraft types to fill 3 arenas, mainly EWA, as well.

Anyway, just to beat again the dead horse: if you take away the arena caps everybody will go and play in the arena with the biggest numbers and leave the other two almost empty. HTC is forcing customers to play in a new way, not asking what customers actually want.

It would be nice to see a poll about the whole thing.


Have to disagree with part of that -

I don't believe the other arenas would empty, all you have to do is look at numbers before the LW arena gets full -

EW and MW combined, generally have around 1/2 the numbers of the LW arena.
No reason why that should change if cap was lifted on the LW arena.
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Offline Pyro

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« Reply #898 on: September 22, 2006, 12:36:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
And as another poster stated the abstract reasons sited for the change are in fact drivel- meaningless with no objective standard. My college English 101 teacher would have red "x'd" the paragraph as BS also. It was completely subjective trying to fake objective.


Quantum physics sounds like meaningless drivel to me but that doesn't invalidate it.  Now I can't share proprietary data but I did think that how we monitor our business would be self-evident - if not in detail at least in general.  I'll elaborate but before I go on, I'm curious; how do you think we measure what we're doing?  Just by the BBS?  

Our business is very measurable in many different ways.  Our customers move through our system and one way we can measure is to see how many people make it to the various points along that journey to give us an indication of how we're doing in any particular area.  It's self evident but I'll spell it out.  Person comes to website --> Downloads game  -->  Creates trial account   --> Plays trial  --> Subscribes  --> Deletes  -->  Possibly returns.   Do you see anything unmeasurable there?  That's our life cycle and it goes on every day.  

So how do we tell if things are healthy?  Some indications the game is healthy is when we are converting a good percentage of trial accounts to subscriptions and our subscriber deletes is held to a good percentage.   If gameplay and/or social conditions degrade, a smaller percentage of trials subscribe and a bigger percentage of subscribers delete.   I didn't think that would be a real shocker but maybe it is.  It's not rocket science or quantum physics and its not black magic.  It's just fundamentals.  Our bottom line is driven by delivering the most fun to the most people.  That's what drives our decisions.

Offline Edbert

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« Reply #899 on: September 22, 2006, 12:43:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
Back when AH was CK and WB, 32 people was a party in the arena. So what's the diff?


I'm not saying that sorry gameplay is in no way a result of some design issues, but I do think the majority of the blame for crappy gameplay rests at the feet of the players. Like you said, we have had great fun and great fights when there were 30-50 players online. The biggest difference between now and then (IMHO) is the mentality of the players, back then we subscribed to these games in order to fight human opponents, since we had all blown away all the boxed sims had to offer. Nowadays it seems the emphasis is in blowing up things that don't meneuver or shoot back, and actively finding places to do this where there is no human opposition.

Case in point...When i logged on to the EW last night it was 21 knights, about a dozen rooks, and 2 bish (yeah it was early, like around 5:45PM central time). At least some of them were flying though. I saw some bardar at one of the bish bases near the home island and went to find a fight. There was a flight of Lancs at about 2,000 feet (how did they get Lancs with that ENY?) pummeling the city, plus there were a few fighter's providing escort. I upped to try and stop them and got HO'ed. Reupped and HO'ed back. Killed the fighters, but could not catch the Lancs (!!!) which flew off. Landed and was on the rearm pad when the base fell to an unseen GV. So what these heroes did was not really much different than what you can do offline in co-operative mode. I posted on ch 200 something like "why don;t we all just meet in the middle and fight?", got 2 or 3 replies, all said "that's no fun".

I think that is the difference, although I don't know why or even understand it. There was a time when nearly everyone online wanted to fight, nowadays there's a significant percentage that want to play what amounts to a boxed sim in coop mode. 30 players is more than enough for some great action, if PVP action is the goal.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 12:46:45 PM by Edbert »