Author Topic: Al-Qaida joins Algerians against France (Read 2041 times)

Momus-- · « **Reply #30 on:** September 17, 2006, 12:52:37 PM »

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Originally posted by Gunslinger
More like when appeasment and a blind eye no longer worked they stepped up and got stomped.

France still stepped up a three full years before you did.

Anything to do with the huge interests US business had in Nazi germany I wonder?

Dago · « **Reply #31 on:** September 17, 2006, 03:06:17 PM »

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Originally posted by Momus--
France still stepped up a three full years before you did.

Anything to do with the huge interests US business had in Nazi germany I wonder?

LOL, that was one of the dumbest posts this year, and obviously done by somebody with no clue about history.

Why wonder, why dont you bother to research and learn?

Neubob · « **Reply #32 on:** September 17, 2006, 03:33:01 PM »

Momus, a question, and I'm not trying to lead, I'm just trying to pinpoint your mindset here...

Has the US done anything, at all, that's praiseworthy and unedictable in the last century? Anything that at its core, isn't selfish and suspect.

I'm curious, because it seems like your snap response is to find fault in everything associated with this nation, and while there are always others, for whatever given period, that are overtly evil, the US seems to be constantly lurking in the shadows, ready to profit whenever and wherever the opportunity presents itself. Is this the case? And while we're at it--is this unique among powerful nations throughout history?

Also, if you wouldn't mind, please skip the links. I'd rather hear your thoughts than read somebody else's.

Dago · « **Reply #33 on:** September 17, 2006, 03:45:13 PM »

He probably was listening to "The Americans" by Gordon Sinclair, and now he knows we are all evil.

Momus-- · « **Reply #34 on:** September 17, 2006, 03:50:46 PM »

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Originally posted by Neubob
Has the US done anything, at all, that's praiseworthy and unedictable in the last century? Anything that at its core, isn't selfish and suspect.

Yes certainly.

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Also, if you wouldn't mind, Please skip the links.

Please skip the aggrieved patriot routine then maybe.

Dago · « **Reply #35 on:** September 17, 2006, 03:55:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Momus--
Yes certainly.

Please skip the aggrieved patriot routine then maybe.

Why are you embarrassed to indicate in your profile where you are from?

Neubob · « **Reply #36 on:** September 17, 2006, 04:02:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Momus--
Please skip the aggrieved patriot routine then maybe.

WTF are you talking about? Have you seen some of my other posts? Do you see me agreeing with everything this nation does, unequivicolly? I don't. I value it for what it can do for its citizens. I don't value it for everything, blindly and without thought. And I wasn't trying to sound like a wounded flag-waver either, Momus, I've just noticed this pattern in your opinions and I wanted to hear it outright, and yes, without links.

Patriotism, while very honorable on the surface, is, at its foundation, a shortcut to thinking. These are shortcuts I try to avoid. I would suggest you do the same in making conclusions about my intentions.

Elfie · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2006, 08:43:40 PM »

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The US didn't recognize Hitler's threat in the same way as the French and English.

The US had no interest in getting involved in another European war. FDR saw the threat, but the American people had no interest in entering the war in Europe. Until the Japanese attacked anyways, even then, if Hitler hadn't declared war first, who knows if we would have fought in Europe?

moot · « **Reply #38 on:** September 17, 2006, 09:38:34 PM »

Dago, if you would be so kind as to get into an argument with Momus..

Momus-- · « **Reply #39 on:** September 18, 2006, 01:54:56 AM »

Moot, no, thanks, I don't get into fist fights with cripples. Besides, it's more fun lurking and watching Dago getting a good kicking over at AGW where even a great many of the right-wingers see him for the troll he is and where he can't hide behind the mods like he does here.

Neubob, If you'd wanted a straight answer you would have asked a straight question instead of making 75% of your post about what you think my opinion is. If want an opinion on a specific issue then fire away.

Neubob · « **Reply #40 on:** September 18, 2006, 03:10:35 AM »

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Originally posted by Momus--
Neubob, If you'd wanted a straight answer you would have asked a straight question instead of making 75% of your post about what you think my opinion is. If want an opinion on a specific issue then fire away.

Fair enough... However, at 4 am, I don't think I can generate a specific issue. I'll try again some time later.

Just so you know, the only reason I ask is because I like the way you cosntruct your reasoning. I don't often agree, which is another reason I ask, but anyone who presents thoughts built of sound logic and objective knowledge is worth communicating with.

Goomba · « **Reply #41 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:06:11 AM »

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Originally posted by Angus
Stick to this though, my dear Americans.
France declared war on Germany in WW2. Ok, they got beaten, but at least they had the balls for it.
The US didn't recognize Hitler's threat in the same way as the French and English.

Not quite, I'm afraid. Hitler's threat was certainly recognized, more so as it grew. However, America was fervently isolationist after what happened in the last European war we got involved in, and the horrific suffering it brought. Where was Iceland again? Come on, Angus...not precisely a fair statement, really...

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Originally posted by Momus
France still stepped up a three full years before you did.

Anything to do with the huge interests US business had in Nazi germany I wonder?

1) France didn't 'step up'. It was invaded...and crushed. I don't recall that France responded in any proactive way to stop Hitler, prior to the Wermacht rolling over the border.

2) Everybody had huge business interests in Germany, which were still in place as Fascism rather quickly took control of German politics. Then as today, Germany was a major economic player in Europe, and around the world. Trying to make some implication of financial self-interst is just cheap, as well as inaccurate.

3) I'll reiterate the thinking of the time, to try and expand your horizons; Why should the US get involved in another European War? The globalized economy of today was not the same back then, more than enough blood had been spilled the last time Europe had gone up in flames (which had only been 20 years prior), and no one in the US saw much need to get involved in another conflagration. It's not like Europe hadn't been at war, one way ot another, for hundreds of years already.

Two members of my family died defending Europe, and France, and the rest of us. In fact, they breathed their last IN FRANCE, and lay there to this day.

How quickly some forget.

Dago · « **Reply #42 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:12:39 AM »

France is always right there every time they need us.

Angus · « **Reply #43 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:19:30 AM »

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Originally posted by Goomba
Not quite, I'm afraid. Hitler's threat was certainly recognized, more so as it grew. However, America was fervently isolationist after what happened in the last European war we got involved in, and the horrific suffering it brought. Where was Iceland again? Come on, Angus...not precisely a fair statement, really...

1) France didn't 'step up'. It was invaded...and crushed. I don't recall that France responded in any proactive way to stop Hitler, prior to the Wermacht rolling over the border.

2) Everybody had huge business interests in Germany, which were still in place as Fascism rather quickly took control of German politics. Then as today, Germany was a major economic player in Europe, and around the world. Trying to make some implication of financial self-interst is just cheap, as well as inaccurate.

3) I'll reiterate the thinking of the time, to try and expand your horizons; Why should the US get involved in another European War? The globalized economy of today was not the same back then, more than enough blood had been spilled the last time Europe had gone up in flames (which had only been 20 years prior), and no one in the US saw much need to get involved in another conflagration. It's not like Europe hadn't been at war, one way ot another, for hundreds of years already.

Two members of my family died defending Europe, and France, and the rest of us. In fact, they breathed their last IN FRANCE, and lay there to this day.

How quickly some forget.

Some points of interests:

1. The lend-lease pact to the British passed with very few votes. Roosevelt managed to push it through, but it had great opposition.
2. The activation of the lend-lease included a big pre-payment in gold.
3. Business was open with Germany untill there was war. With the RN at large they just couldn't pick up any goodies.
4. As a bonus to the lend-lease, Britain also had to share technology to the full (which IMHO was a good thing in the long run) as well as give up some base(s) to the U.S.
5. World war II was on for more than two years before the USA had war declared upon them.
6. Little Iceland hasn't got an army. Yet they were involved in heavy shipping to the UK as well as many an adventurer strayed further. Casualties % was higher than for the U.S.
(one of my great uncles was at Iwo, another a fighter ace, the third got his ship torpedoed twice, and a couple were killed by german subs and rest somewhere at the bottom of the sea)
So, no forgetting. Just factum.

straffo · « **Reply #44 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:29:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Goomba
1) France didn't 'step up'. It was invaded...and crushed. I don't recall that France responded in any proactive way to stop Hitler, prior to the Wermacht rolling over the border.

You've a bad memory : Sarre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive