FSO: Pacific Flames / Road to Midway - Advice Sought

[ghostdancer]

Guys,

I am back as an admin CM for FSO and I am starting to put together the next FSO and with my schedule I am doing it now so that I don't get overwhelmed at the end (not tons of free time on my hand so better to build it out over a couple of weeks). Right now we have one new map ready to go, the Aleutians, and a second one that might be ready to go, Midway (Midway atoll looks really sweet and I hope Raptor finishes ironing things out in time).

Anyway I play to try to maximize are map use by having 3 frames that use three different maps (one for each frame). Basically by doing this I am hoping to give us sort of a campaign type of feel for the period of 1942.

Now depending on what maps are available I plan to do either

PACIFIC FLAMES

Frame 1
The Invasion of Burma (1942) with Hurricane IICs, FM2s (for Buffaloes), P40Bs, and .. well Boston is right time period but thinking about subbing in the TBM as a Blenheim substitute versus A6M2, D3A, B5N2, and the JU88 as a sub for land based bombers.

Frame 2
Invasion of Mindano with P40Bs and B17s (limited not formations) versus A6M2, D3A, and B5n2.

Frame 3
Invasion of the Aleutians with P40Bs, B26s (limited not formations)  and B17s (limited not formations) versus A6M2, D3A, and B5n2. This is a new map that is ready to go.
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Real issue I have is the Bostons IIIs here. They are fast and while if they are intercepted they are relatively easy to chew up intercepting them is the key for the A6M2s. I don't care for subs but, hey we have to do it with the limited early war plane set. The TBM to me looks like a good sub for the Blenheim but what do others think?

Also have thought about mixing in P40Es but not sure about it. I like to always have a side have some special / limited planes but outside of giving the Japanese some A6M5b (very close to the A6M3) well nothing else would fit for them having a few special planes.


If the Midway Map gets done:

ROAD TO MIDWAY

Frame 1
Coral Sea: F4F-4, SBD-5 and TBM versus A6M2, D3A, and B5N2.

Frame 2
Invasion of the Aleutians: P40Bs (maybe some P40Es), B26s (limited not formations)  and B17s (limited not formations) versus A6M2, D3A, and B5n2. This is a new map that is ready to go.

Frame 3
Midway: F4F-4s, SBD-5s, TBMs, limited B17s, limited FM2 (Buffaloes) versus A6M2s, D3A, and B5N2.
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Here is a good plane comparison site I have been using. By it the A6M2 is a good match versus the P40B and P40E and the F4F.  Hurricane IIC is also a decent match versus the A6M2 as long as the Hizukas don't nail you. http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

So overall I am looking for comments on the TBMs sub or Bostons and the inclusion of the P40Es.

[ghostdancer]

The plans above are contingent on the MAPs being ready and vetted by the Terrain Team lead.

Fingers crossed oh, and I am sure that a case of Scotch to Dux, Raptor, and 68Falcon will help to.

[Skyfoxx]

Ghostdancer,

I would support the inclusion of the P40E in the Aleutians campaign as they were received by  Maj. Jack Chennault's 11th Fighter Squadron in January 1942.

The 11th Fighter Group took part in the defense of Dutch Harbor in June of that year as well as some RCAF Kittyhawks, (don't remember the RCAF Squad designation but can look it up.)
If it will help I can send you some additional info on the events around the time of the Dutch Harbor Raid in June of 1942.

[ghostdancer]

Sure fire away on the info for Dutch Harbor.

I was thinking about having some P40E in the Aleutians frame. Just need to go over plane comparisons again and might be a mix of P40Bs and P40Es. Oh, and the B26s and B17s will be single planes, no formations. From what I read there was something like 17 or so B17s there and 20-30 B26s.

[ghostdancer]

Btw, guys I am asking for opinions on planeset. I do reserve the right as the CM to make the final call on what I decide to have fly and what mix. Aleutians will probably be a perfect example. While the P40E might have been fully deployed there I might, might for playbility sakes have a mix of P40Bs and P40Es.

I just need to finish working out how the A6M2 really stacks up against both of those plane types.

So everyone please understand I am in the exploratory stage and just seeking input here to help refine things based on the rough idea (i.e. why thinking of using TBMs for Blenheim subs instead of using Bostons .. because it might be a plability issues that the A6M2s can't catch Bostons .. plus, Bostons really were deployed in numbers to Burma in 1942 but Blenheims were).

[Skyfoxx]

Email sent.

[Sled]

Well, I feel the axis would have the biggest limitations of the two plane sets.

Bostons I think are to fast for this event with those japanese planes. Maybe the TBM would be a better sub. If you are going to use the boston, then maybe give the axis the KI-67, so both sides have fast bombers.

If you are going to use the B-17 are you going to give it an ALT restriction? obviously, the IJN planes have no chance of catching 17's at 30K. Can a a6m2 even get to 30K?

If you are going to use the P-40E, Hurri IIC, or a6m5, I would limit the numbers that can be used.

I would limit the P-40E, because you want the allied to use mostly 40B's.

I would limit the Hurri IIc, because it's gun package is so superior.

I would limit the a6m5, because you want the axis to use mostly a6m2.


Can't wait to fly in my home state.

[ghostdancer]

The P40Es would definitely limited. It is faster, acceleration matches the A6M2, and can match its climb in certain areas (especially with wep). However, A6M2 can turn cirlces around it.

But still probably will do a mix of P40Bs and P40Es.

As for the Hurricane I actually thought about the Hurricane I, problem is then you have the opposite problem with the A6M2 being much, much more lethal than the Hurricane I. The RAF did rush and did get Hurricanes into action in Burma but I believe they were the Hurricane IIB. Outside of guns actually the Hurricane and A6M2 are pretty good matches.

I don't think I will deploy A6M5bs .. they are just way to late. But still thinking about it (and if I do decide it would be limited numbers).

I won't deploy Ki67s .. two fast and two deadly. Bostons are fast but if you can intercept them their defense armament is not much of a threat. Ki67s defensive armament is a threat to even late war planes.

So if I run Burma it might be the TBM as the sub for a blenheim and JU88 as a sub for IJN bombers. Still thinking on that.

Also going to drop the FM2 from the setup. It is just to good a plane to sub for the Buffalo. However, and I have to confirm this APdrone says the F4F-4 has a 4 gun package. If this is true then might use a 4 gun version of the F4F as buffaloes. Of course will have to rely on squads to do the honor system and if deployed in Buffaloes to only use the 4 gun package.

As for the B17s they would be used in frames against ships. So will have to think about an alt cap but bombing from high alt against maneuvering ships is .. well tough. Try to hit a CV at 20K or 30K while it is zig zagging. So I am not sure there.

If I was allied I would have the B17s B26s come in at the teens to hit the IJN ships .. and rely on escorts and defensive armament to get through so that I had a better chance of hitting with eggs. Both bomber types will be severaly limited.

But will think on whether to do an alt cap or not.

Two other items there will no mannable guns. Oh, and the 50 / 50 rule will be replaced by the min max aircraft rule that I used previousl (I got the okay from Nef to do that in this FSO).

[ghostdancer]

I have confirmed that the F4F-4 does have a 4 gun package.

Okay so if I do a Burma frame (meaning Midway map is not ready) then I think will go with the F4F-F as the sub for the Bufallo with the 4 gun package. This was the majority plane for the Brits in May 1942.

So you would have available to the Allies:

P40Bs (limited)
F4F-4 (no max on)
Hurricane IICs (limited)

Bomber yet TBD, although leaning heavily toward TBM.

NOTE: The allies had very limited bomber resources in Burma 1942.

For Axis:

A6M2
D3A
B5N2

Bomber yet TBD, although leaning heavily toward the JU88s.

NOTE: I might allow the IJN to have formations since they had a lot of land base bombers based in French Indochina. However, I would put a cap on the max amount of pilots that can fly JU88s.

[Easyscor]

Originally posted by ghostdancer
So overall I am looking for comments on the TBMs sub or Bostons and the inclusion of the P40Es.

The single Boston or the TBM are both capable in this planeset, but because of the twin engine point value and speed, the Bostons will be ordered to run away instead of staying to help in a dogfight; guaranteed if you use formations.  Both are fun to use in the dogfight roll if they have local air superiority but the TBM has the better gun package.

[Dux]

GD, if you want a precedence to follow, then know that the JU88 and the Boston were both used in the Rangoon Scenario a couple of years ago. I agree that the F4F makes a better sub for the Buffalo.

[ghostdancer]

Do you remember how the A6M2s stood up or performed trying to intercept and take down the Bostons?

[Dux]

Sorry, no... didn't actually play. DoKgOnZo would be the guy to ask.

[ROC]

Do you remember how the A6M2s stood up or performed trying to intercept and take down the Bostons?

I seem to remember the A6M2s running out of cannons pretty quick against the Bostons, and had a hard time catching them if they slipped away.

[Easyscor]

Originally posted by ghostdancer
Do you remember how the A6M2s stood up or performed trying to intercept and take down the Bostons?

This might help.
The top speed of the Boston is at 13K and is about 14 mph faster then the zeke at it's best top speed.  The TBM is about 55 mph slower then the zeke but if 8 TBMs can corner a couple or three zekes, it's a good fight.
Bomb load is the same.

Edit: Had an oops on the alt.