Author Topic: Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial  (Read 3972 times)

Offline lukster

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2006, 05:33:10 PM »
So, for the record, what does Lindzen actually believe? This is how Lindzen responded to Annan: "The quote [at Reason Online] was out of context. I think the odds are about 50-50. I said that if anyone were willing to give warming much higher odds than that, I would be tempted to take the bet." Lindzen and Annan subsequently haggled a bit over what would be a fair bet. From Lindzen's point of view, any such bet would be between people like Annan, who are convinced by climate model projections that average global temperatures should be increasing about 0.3C per decade, and people who think it's even odds that temperatures will be lower than they are now in 20 years.

Setting aside the bet that global temperatures will be lower in 20 years, Lindzen offered Annan an alternative bet. If the temperature change were less than 0.2C, he would win. If the temperature change were between 0.2C and 0.4C the bet would be off. And if the temperature change were 0.4 or greater, Annan would win. He would take 2 to 1 odds. After all, Lindzen is on record as saying that global average temperatures could rise by 1 degree Celsius over the next century. In contrast, climate model projections predict a warming of 1.4 to 5.8 degrees Celsius by 2100, though a new study in January suggested global warming could be "Twice as Bad as Previously Thought," with an upper projection of average global temperatures reaching 11 degrees Celsius.

Annan then countered with a bet pegged to some agreed upon average temperature in 20 years with payouts based on how many hundredths of a degree Celsius the loser was from the agreed upon temperature. Lindzen responded by skeptically asking how one would accurately measure hundredths of a degree Celsius on a global level. Their negotiations apparently ended there and, at least on the part of Annan, the blogging began.

Offline lukster

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2006, 05:46:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKH
"There isn't much money in climate science and I'm still looking for that gold watch at retirement," Annan says. "A pay-off would be a nice top-up to my pension."

I'm sure he doesn't charge energy companies £2,500 a day for consultancy work, testify before a Senate committee on a trip funded by Western Fuels, or write speeches (your link) paid for by OPEC, either.


ad hominem?

Offline AKH

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2006, 06:01:38 PM »
"The skeptics assert flatly that their science is untainted by funding. Nevertheless, in this persistent and well-funded campaign of denial they have become interchangeable ornaments on the hood of a high-powered engine of disinformation. Their dissenting opinions are amplified beyond all proportion through the media while the concerns of the dominant majority of the world's scientific establishment are marginalized.  By keeping the discussion focused on whether there is a problem in the first place, they have effectively silenced the debate over what to do about it."
AKHoopy Arabian Knights
google koan: "Your assumptions about the lives of others are in direct relation to your naïve pomposity."

Offline lukster

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2006, 06:24:38 PM »
You and some others here seem quite devout in your faith and are more familiar with it's tenets than I. Nothing wrong with that, I think everyone needs to believe in something.

Fact is, I already drive as little as possible and a relatively small car (Honda) at that. I try to conserve other resources if for no other reason than that it saves me money. If you can figure out a way to get me better fuel efficiency without taking my job or otherwise inflicting hardship on me I'm more than willing to let you or anyone else save the world.

Offline Arlo

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2006, 06:48:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
Horse crap. They are funded, grant induced fairy tales with an outcome of findings before the fact. Pay to sayers.

sez Jackal rather arbitrarily

 

Angus have you read any of the info posted explaining this at all or have you just decided the blinders fit perfectly? :)

  sez Jackal from his own set of blinders

It`s all about the money . Mo Money...Mo Money.

sez Jackal defending the corporate cow which is much larger than any other cow could possibly be



:D

Offline john9001

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2006, 07:03:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKH
" they have effectively silenced the debate over what to do about it."


we are all listening, please tell us what to do about it. and i mean details, not a vague "use less oil".

Offline Arlo

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2006, 07:27:36 PM »
What's so "vague" about use less oil? LOL :D

Offline john9001

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2006, 08:09:26 PM »
what i was looking for was how to use less oil, this is no time to make jokes, the seas will rise 50 feet and all the multi-million dollar waterfront property will be worthless, Bangladesh will become the gulf of Bangladesh.

we must save waterfront condos.

i asked for details, close factories, ration gasoline, only 12 hours of electricity per day, kill the methane producing sheep, we need answers to SAVE THE WORLD.








SAVE THE CONDOS.

Offline Arlo

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2006, 09:43:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
what i was looking for was how to use less oil, this is no time to make jokes, the seas will rise 50 feet and all the multi-million dollar waterfront property will be worthless, Bangladesh will become the gulf of Bangladesh.

we must save waterfront condos.

i asked for details, close factories, ration gasoline, only 12 hours of electricity per day, kill the methane producing sheep, we need answers to SAVE THE WORLD.

SAVE THE CONDOS.


I don't think you're wanting methods as much as you're hoping those on the other side of this issue come across sounding as ridiculously extreme as you do. ;)

Have you missed this phrase over the last 3 decades: "Alternate fuel source"?

:D

Offline Jackal1

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2006, 10:18:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
:Horse crap. They are funded, grant induced fairy tales with an outcome of findings before the fact. Pay to sayers.

sez Jackal rather arbitrarily



Angus have you read any of the info posted explaining this at all or have you just decided the blinders fit perfectly?

sez Jackal from his own set of blinders

It`s all about the money . Mo Money...Mo Money.

sez Jackal defending the corporate cow which is much larger than any other cow could possibly be
D



Ya big bully. :)

For 1.........everyone knows that I am the final word on the subject. I thought everyone knew that. :)

For #2...... That`s how myself and Angus wake each other up if one nods over a cup of coffee.

For #3....I have just as many hoofs prints on my back pocket as anyone from getting kicked from that herd.  :)
If it wasn`t for the Mo Money........Mo Money aspect of this debate it would have been settled a long time ago with a shrug and a "big deal".  That`s from all concerned.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Arlo

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2006, 10:44:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
Ya big bully. :)

For 1.........everyone knows that I am the final word on the subject. I thought everyone knew that. :)

For #2...... That`s how myself and Angus wake each other up if one nods over a cup of coffee.

For #3....I have just as many hoofs prints on my back pocket as anyone from getting kicked from that herd.  :)
If it wasn`t for the Mo Money........Mo Money aspect of this debate it would have been settled a long time ago with a shrug and a "big deal".  That`s from all concerned.


Well, if pressed, I'd freely admit I have my price. Unfortuantely nobody seems to think I have the qualifications. Go figure. :D
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 10:47:43 PM by Arlo »

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #86 on: September 24, 2006, 12:14:59 AM »
We have to install fart collectors to teh cows. It's a doublewin situation. You stop tons of methane going up in the air and you can burn it for heat.

Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline lazs2

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #87 on: September 24, 2006, 09:13:28 AM »
yeah.. these are the noble scientists you want to go unchalenged...

Not knowing anything about climate didn't stop sagan... not knowing anything about climate doesn't stop the huge group of scientists who are on your side but have no experiance in climate.   In fact.. the thing started in the 80's... are you saying they had a crystal ball... there was no evidence... or... maybe they simply had an agenda that they continued with...

"The activities of the Union of Concerned Scientists deserve special mention. That widely supported organization was originally devoted to nuclear disarmament. As the cold war began to end, the group began to actively oppose nuclear power generation. Their position was unpopular with many physicists. Over the past few years, the organization has turned to the battle against global warming in a particularly hysterical manner. In 1989 the group began to circulate a petition urging recognition of global warming as potentially the great danger to mankind. Most recipients who did not sign were solicited at least twice more. The petition was eventually signed by 700 scientists including a great many members of the National Academy of Sciences and Nobel laureates. Only about three or four of the signers, however, had any involvement in climatology. Interestingly, the petition had two pages, and on the second page there was a call for renewed consideration of nuclear power. When the petition was published in the New York Times, however, the second page was omitted. In any event, that document helped solidify the public perception that "all scientists'' agreed with the disaster scenario. Such a disturbing abuse of scientific authority was not unnoticed. At the 1990 annual meeting of the National Academy of Sciences, Frank Press, the academy's president, warned the membership against lending their credibility to issues about which they had no special knowledge. Special reference was made to the published petition. In my opinion what the petition did show was that the need to fight "global warming'' has become part of the dogma of the liberal conscience--a dogma to which scientists are not immune. "

Offline Angus

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #88 on: September 24, 2006, 11:46:46 AM »
Sagan had a point, and if he was right our global warming is bigger than we think.
Throughout countless milleniums, rough volcanic eruptions actually have shaded the sun enough for the climate to temporarily cool.
So, call Sagan a fool if it makes you feel better.
And for this:

"Most of the alarmist scientists all said that it was WORSE than just smoking the damn cig! they can't help themselves... they allways exaggerate."

Actually, the smoke you breathe through the filter is better than the one around you. It's more completely burned you see.
Both are bad, and no sciense that the tobacco companies funded could even turn the tables on that one. But they sure funded it :D

Guess what was the death cause of the Marlborough man :D
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline AKH

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Royal Society tells Exxon: stop funding climate change denial
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2006, 12:36:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Not knowing anything about climate didn't stop sagan...  

Or David Bellamy...
Global Warming? What a load of poppycock!
AKHoopy Arabian Knights
google koan: "Your assumptions about the lives of others are in direct relation to your naïve pomposity."