Ok, voter ID is discrimination...

[lazs2]

skuzzy... you are not implying that the media in the U.S. has an agenda that is counter to good reporting?

lazs

[Chairboy]

If the dead cannot vote, then how will Chicago elect anyone?

I'm on the fence about this issue.  It says that by 2010, the requirement for voting will expand to being able to prove US Citizenship at the polling place.  A drivers license is not an adequate proof of that, in fact I have many resident alien friends who have drivers licenses here.  

This would appear to mandate that you present a birth certificate, passport, or military ID at the polling place.  I think this could have a chilling effect on democracy by raising the 'price of admission' for people we should be reaching out to as voters.  The young generations are not as engaged in the democratic process as in the past.  This may reflect a gradual shift away from a representative democracy and a shift towards concentrating the power of the country in the hands of a small group.  

I do not believe this reflects the intentions of our founding fathers.  I would rather that existing vote fraud laws be enforced rather than creating new laws and barriers.  This is no different from proposing new laws against firearms to "fight crime" instead of enforcing the existing and more than adequete laws already on the books.

I urge those of you who share my opinion on the fallacies of gun control to re-examine this legislation with that in mind to see if these new laws still do what you want them to, then ask yourselves some hard questions.

[Skuzzy]

Damn, I thought I came right out and said it.  The media thing was secondary to schools allowing the administrators to stand up in front of students and preach 'death to the white man'.

I must be slipping.

This law will not fix anything anyway.  In 68 illegals were voting.  All the folks running the show had to do was assign a dead person's ID to them so they could vote.  No one called foul.  Hell, no one even knows it was happening.
How is a picture ID going to help?  All they will do is provide one to the voter from the same dead person's file.  Sheesh.  It will just cost the legitimate tax payer more money.

[Goomba]

Why would one perceive the act of presenting a verifiable identification as unamerican?

The legislation requires that a valid photo ID (just a driver's license) be presented in order to cast your vote.  The ballot is still secret and, in many local municipalities, showing your DL is required to vote anyway.

When the idea of national ID cards is floated, it always brings out the 'big brother' arguement, but this idea seems to be purely procedural...just mandating uniformity.  Also, it's intended to guarantee the validity of votes...which is no laughing matter.

Considering the impact of illegal voting, illegal immigration, espionage, etc...I have no problem with being sure that people who are claiming priviledges are actually supposed to be entitled to them.

This approach still keeps identification issued at the state level, not federal.

[Goomba]

Skuzz,

I'm just guessing, but my hunch is that the legislation relys on the increasingly tight requirements for getting a DL.  Here in Jersey, they use a point system, and I had to do some hunting to find enough document points to renew.  It's a LOT harder to get an illigitimate DL here now than it was 3 years ago.  A dead man can't produce a recent bank statement, US passport or property tax bill.

By relying on tighter state-level DL issuance requirements, the legislation would simply help assure that votes are cast by people who are legitimate; i.e....citizens, residents,...and not dead.

I'm not suggesting that it's foolproof, just that it appears to be a step in the right direction to making certain that the sanctity of our voting system doesn't get violated by guys like your school VP, and the sort of person he endeavored to recruit to take over the country (or at least Texas, The Great Republic of    )

[Skuzzy]

Let me clarify.  What the little school dictator was telling his followers was that everything was in place then.

He was right.  If you are an illegal in South Texas, you can get a driver's license, be able to vote, get a job, get health care, and not be a U.S. citizen.  

No amount of state or federal law will change that, as the people who are in control are sympathizers.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by ASTAC
It's not like it's hard to get a picture ID either. They are cheap. Anyone who doesn't have one(who can get one) is just too lazy to go to their local DMV and wait in line.

Around here it's simply impossible to "live" without 2 forms of ID; no bank account, no Apt, cant drive, cant cash a check.. even the "NO ID" check cashing places wont do it until they make you one of their ID cards.

I would venture to guess that most citizens have found its nearly impossible to get by without any ID and are so used to hearing "Can I see your ID please?" , it would be 2nd nature when going to vote.

Either way Repubs / Dems are out for themselves first, not the country.. and I'm sure they'll craft laws to help themselves as much as possible while trying to screw the other side out of votes.

[Goomba]

Well, anything that does come along to put an end to that (and I surely hope it will) has my total support.

The parasitism has got to end...soon.

[Gunthr]

This would appear to mandate that you present a birth certificate, passport, or military ID at the polling place. I think this could have a chilling effect on democracy by raising the 'price of admission' for people we should be reaching out to as voters.- Chairboy

I totally disagree.  I think of it as step 1 for each person in doing their civic duty to help insure the vote is legitimate.  What we are trying to protect here is the integrity of the vote, and the confidence the legitimate voter can have in this process.  If someone feels chilled by this, maybe they have good reason...

[Skuzzy]

If you want a legitimate vote, you would need to eliminate votes from South Texas, much of Southern California, parts of New Mexico, and probably others.

Otherwise, its all tainted.  And there is nothing that will be done about it.  And I am not sure there is anything that can be done about it, short of sending in the military and declaring marshal law.

But all of that would have to be from the outside.  South Texas (I cannot speak about the oterh areas) is a safe haven for illegals.

[Gunthr]

I guess it would be more precise to say "more legitimate"  Scuzzy.  I didn't know it was that bad out there.   However, working towards the eventual goal is a worthy effort, and you have to start someplace...  we certainly should be able to stop some fraudulant voting this way.

[Eagler]

[Skuzzy]

I suppose they can use an 'X'.  Most cannot write anyway.  They may not even have to though.  Some of the paperwork is already signed for them.

[ASTAC]

WHat we need is not more laws...but a military coup...and marshal law...then maybe voters and politicians alike will appreciate what our founding fathers tried to do for us.
But before normalcy can resume:
Party affiliations should be outlawed (look at all the recent votes there is no bipartisanship)

Lobbyists should be outlawed.

Donations to canidates can only be made by private citizens. ANd a cap of $5000 on top of that.

No political ads for or against any canidate by a corperation, group or individual.

Thats just a start.

In my opinion most Americans don't deserve to vote anyway. If you can't even find your hometown or state on a map, then you have no business having a say in anything that goes on here.

[Chairboy]

ASTAC: Check out 'Starship Troopers' by Robert Heinlein.  Different from the movie.