Author Topic: Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?  (Read 304 times)

Offline Simaril

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« on: September 22, 2006, 11:55:53 AM »
Nearly empty arenas can be hard to fill, because with so few players its just hard to find a squad, a fight, an enemy defending a base -- whatever it is that you like to do. Once the arena reaches a "critical mass", folks join without thinking about it and the game is afoot.

Problems
1. This is an issue right after a primary arena meets 90% and a new arena is cloned. By far the most commonly full arena is the late war, and I've noticed that sometimes things will stall with the LW1 full, and the LW2 stalled below critical mass.

2. With caps, it's clearly harder for ANY squad to stay together in the LW arenas. Larger squads, many of which prefer the LW, can fnd it about impossible to get their guys in to play. If they try for the LW1, the cap gets in the way; if they jump into LW2, they're guaranteed massive side imbalance which hurts them (ENY) and others (think of swarmed bees on a single honeypot).

Suggestion....

Would it be possible to do an arena SPLIT at 90% rather than an arena CLONE?

If the 2 arena populations were divided in half, then both LW's would be above critical mass and could expand more naturally. They would each have room for joiners below the cap, and that could mean that larger squads woudl have better opportunity to get in without triggering unacceptable swings.

The goal seems like a good one, but I'm a bit stumped about how to make it work in a way acceptable to players. Thats why I'm posting it here, to see what the community can come up with.

The arenas could divide like cells, with each "daughter" being identical to the parent cell -- INCLUDING BASE OWNERSHIP and strat conditions at the time of division. That way it would feel like the same fight was going on, just with fewer people in each arena "cell."

My first thought was to have the arenas refill as players land. When they try to take off, a message could come up announcing the split and asking the player to move to the new arena. For those in squads, they could select to have their entire squad move as they reupped...so they could stay together.

The problem comes in that making a arena split work would require some degree of coercion...at some point, the system would have to be able to say, "no, you cant do that" in order to get the numbers to move in both directions (and, if it also became a goal, to get the sides balanced out).

This is a significant cost, no doubt at all...but I think the benefit makes it worth considering. Would it be worth the restriction to gain the opportunity for squads -- and especially larger groups -- to work together?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 11:58:01 AM by Simaril »
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Offline SlapShot

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2006, 12:06:04 PM »
Doesn't seem like a bad idea a face value, but the amount of coading to accomplish this would be huge (from my standpoint).

The problem comes in that making a arena split work would require some degree of coercion

This is where the real problem would exist ... coersion is not a strong point of this community.
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Offline Simaril

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2006, 12:10:13 PM »
Yeah, no doubt thats the weak point. (Assuming that the coad work isnt awful)

This would be a balanced priority issue -- would the community accept coercion if it meant they could a) stay together more as squads b) find better fighting conditions in their preferred arena; and (maybe) c) have more balance overall?
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Offline Kev367th

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2006, 12:19:10 PM »
Wouldn't an even eaiser solution just be to increase (to say 350) or remove the cap on the LW arena only.

Seems to me would keep everyone happy.

By design the very way arenas spawn CREATES imbalance.
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Offline hitech

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2006, 12:35:03 PM »
Simaril: One way to accoumpliesh your suggestion is to lower the limits, i.e. lowering to 180 - 200 range would make the critcal mass build in 2nd arena.

Suddenly thinking of what I could do by just having the limits varaible based on the population in each arena.


Also coding for moving some one would require a front end release, plus a fair amout of coding to accomplish.

Could also do stuff like show 1 arena, but what arena of same type you end up in could change.


HiTech
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 12:37:06 PM by hitech »

Offline viper215

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2006, 01:25:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Simaril: One way to accoumpliesh your suggestion is to lower the limits, i.e. lowering to 180 - 200 range would make the critcal mass build in 2nd arena.

Suddenly thinking of what I could do by just having the limits varaible based on the population in each arena.


Also coding for moving some one would require a front end release, plus a fair amout of coding to accomplish.

Could also do stuff like show 1 arena, but what arena of same type you end up in could change.


HiTech


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Offline Kev367th

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2006, 01:32:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Yeah, no doubt thats the weak point. (Assuming that the coad work isnt awful)

This would be a balanced priority issue -- would the community accept coercion if it meant they could a) stay together more as squads b) find better fighting conditions in their preferred arena; and (maybe) c) have more balance overall?


You also forgot whole squads going to the 'new' arena would more than likely cause an imbalance in numbers.

I've never seen imbalances in country numbers as high as they have been since the new arenas came in. (well maybe just prior to a reset to the country jumpers under the old MA).

The idea is great, EW / MW / LW with caps, but is based on a an ideal that can never be achieved.
'Balance' is impossible, due to both the nature of the game, and human nature. It's a fantasy.

Balance and fairness went out the window well before even the 'bigger gun', 'better engine', 'better airframe' or 'bigger army' came around.
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Offline lazs2

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Help for squads -- Could full arenas split instead of clone?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2006, 02:17:45 PM »
ewww... like HT's second suggestion...  if that could be added to something like slapshots numbers balance idea for sides...

Say.. you log on to LW and it puts you into one arena or another (assuming one is full)...  it would then pop up that you had the choice of say...  rooks or knights because the numbers were say.....  50 rooks  60 knights and 80 bish.

I can't help but think fairly even sides with capped limits on areas is a a really good way to have choice and gameplay.

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