Author Topic: 767 goes down in Queens, New York  (Read 1903 times)

Offline mrfish

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2343
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2001, 11:49:00 AM »
hangtime - check in plz

Offline hblair

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4051
      • http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2001, 11:56:00 AM »
Same thing I was thinking mrfish.

Offline the_hegemon

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 143
      • http://127.0.0.1
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2001, 12:08:00 PM »
Check this FAA Advisory.  Could be what happened.  But then again, maybe not, we'll have to wait and see what the official investigation comes up with.  In the meantime, I'm still gonna fly.


 
Quote
Certainly looks like a 'normal' air disaster. Which under any other circumstances would be an odd thing to say.

Yeah, i'd agree completely with that.

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2001, 12:31:00 PM »
The Airbus A300 has very good safety record by most accounts.

A300 reliability
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Eaglecz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2001, 12:33:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
CNN reports "The plane was a Boeing Airbus A300."

   :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:

most of CNN reports are like this one

Offline Eaglecz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2001, 12:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Engine sitting at a gas station a mile from crash site.

probably needed fuel ?

  :rolleyes:

Offline Weave

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 343
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »
Bad form EagleC  :(

Offline Rendar

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 112
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2001, 05:00:00 PM »
Read the book "Airframe" by Michael Crichton if you want to see dimwit journalists.

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Rendar ]

Offline Ozark

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1176
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2001, 05:14:00 PM »
AIR CRASH RESCUE NEWS:
 
November 12, 2001 - Officials: Crash Likely an Accident.
 
WASHINGTON (USA) - An accident rather than terrorism probably caused an  
American Airlines jet to plunge into a neighborhood in New York, federal  
officials said Monday. Investigators focused on an engine that fell away from  
the doomed plane.  
 
The investigators swiftly reviewed the plane's maintenance records, but  
initially found ``nothing indicative of a specific problem,'' said director  
Marion Blakey of the National Transportation Safety Board. Officials located  
the flight data recorder and rushed it to the nation's capital for analysis.  
 
``All information we have currently is that this is an accident,'' said  
Blakey, as the Bush administration sent experts to the scene.  
 
While the crash was horrific - the plane carried 255 people to their deaths,  
and wreckage set several homes on fire in Queens - the preliminary assessment  
seemed a relief of sorts for a nation struggling to recover from the Sept. 11  
terrorist attacks and an outbreak of mail-spread anthrax.  
 
President Bush was handed a note informing him of the crash moments after it  
occurred, and Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge moved quickly to the White  
House Situation room to confer by telephone with FBI Director Robert S.  
Mueller and others. Officials gave some consideration to shutting down the  
nation's air travel system, as was done after the September attacks in New  
York and Washington, but decided against it after sifting through the  
available information.   
 
White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said at the White House there had been no  
unusual communications between the cockpit and air traffic officials on the  
ground. He also said there had been no credible threats against airplanes in  
advance of the crash.  
 
Fleischer declined to rule out terrorism but said he would not dispute the  
assessment of other officials who had said privately there was no preliminary  
evidence that terrorists had been involved.  
 
Blakey made her comments a short while later.  
 
The president spoke by phone with New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and Gov.  
George Pataki. In a remarkable sign of the times, Giuliani said he had asked  
the president for ``air cover'' to protect his wounded city.  
 
Blakey said debris fell over a wide area of Queens, a few miles from the  
airport where Dominican Republic-bound American Airlines Flight 587 plane  
took off. She noted there were reports of some wreckage recovered in Jamaica  
Bay.  
 
Witnesses said there may have been an explosion on board the plane.  
 
``It's too early for me to advance theories on this,'' Blakey said. But she  
noted in response to a question that engine parts were scattered ``some  
distance from the actual crash crater.''  
 
At least one of the engines, believed to be from the right side, fell intact  
on a gas-station parking lot. American Airlines said the left engine on  
Flight 587 was freshly overhauled and the right engine was about due for  
maintenance after nearly 10,000 hours of operation.  
 
General Electric Aircraft Engines, the Cincinnati-based subsidiary of General  
Electric Co., sent two experts to the crash site to assist federal  
investigators. GE manufactured the CF6-80C2 jet engines - the same model as  
those installed on Air Force One - that were mounted on the underside of each  
wing of the doomed flight.  
 
``There are eyewitness reports that they saw the engine on fire and it   
reportedly landed in a separate place from the main body of the wreckage,''  
said Susan Coughlin, a former vice chairwoman for the NTSB and now chief  
operating officer of American Trucking Associations Foundation. ``That would  
certainly prompt the investigators to figure out why.''  
 
A Chicago-based lawyer, Tom Ellis of the Nolan Law Group, said photographs of  
the surviving engine showed ``pretty clear evidence of an uncontained engine  
failure.'' His firm sued on behalf of victims of United Airlines Flight 232,  
which crashed in 1989 in Sioux City, Iowa, after an earlier version of the  
CF6 engine came apart in flight. So-called ``uncontained engine failures''  
can result in an explosion of metal fragments as damaging as shrapnel from a  
bomb.  
 
Earlier this year, on May 18, a problem with the same type of engine forced  
the emergency landing of a Monarch Airlines passenger jet in Portugal.   
Documents from the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch said a rotor  
blade snapped, puncturing the engine's housing with a 3-inch hole and causing  
minor damage to the wing. The pilots reported dramatic vibration, and British  
officials reported there had been ``several similar failures prior to this  
event.''  
 
The FAA ordered airlines in June to begin regularly inspecting these types of  
engines for cracks in certain rotor disks, a component within the engines,  
after the dramatic failure of one engine when maintenance crews set it to  
high power during testing on the ground.  
 
Last year, the FAA also ordered airlines to replace a fuel tube within these  
engines to prevent high-pressure leaks that investigators warned could result  
in an engine fire and damage to the airplane. Also last year, the FAA ordered  
carriers to remove certain fan shafts within these engines earlier than  
planned to prevent possible catastrophic failure.  
 
GE spokesman Rick Kennedy said American completed all these inspections and  
repairs. ``Airworthiness directives'' from the FAA mandating such repairs are  
relatively common.  
 
GE has built 2,954 of these engines - first introduced in 1984 - and they are  
among the best-selling for wide-bodied aircraft. Kennedy called the CF6  
engines ``phenomenally reliable,'' and said they have been installed on more  
than 1,000 planes worldwide.

Offline Dinger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1705
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2001, 07:35:00 PM »
Could be Darkstar, but fuel doesn't normally explode in a liquid state; so you need to have a tank with fumes in it.  The (Silk Air?) 737 and TWA 800 (center tank just at empty, 120 degrees or so F. inside) that had fuel tank explosions met that criteria, but here we'd have to posit that an A300 at takeoff on a reasonably long flight had a wing tank near empty.  Maybe, but we'll need many more pieces.

Anyway, as you see from the news report posted there, the #1 engine was "Freshly Overhauled".  In a press conference, the CEO of AA specified that "freshly overhauled" meant "one or two cycles ago".  Not right out of the hangar, but pretty close.
It's a terrible tragedy, and we will have the answers in time.  But the right now the odds are on a maintenance or manufacturing error on the engine.  Second bet would be birdstrike.

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Dinger ]

Offline moose

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2702
      • http://www.ccrhl.com
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2001, 08:13:00 PM »
anyone hear from bohica or hang?
<----ASSASSINS---->

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2001, 08:37:00 PM »
Hangtime's checked in... dunno about Bohica.

AKDejaVu

Offline Dnil

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 879
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2001, 09:57:00 PM »
Bo is fine.  Just got an email from him.  He just flew the same flight on Saturday.


Dnil

Offline Ozark

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1176
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2001, 10:21:00 PM »
Wow...What a difference 2 days makes.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
767 goes down in Queens, New York
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2001, 11:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dnil:
Bo is fine.  Just got an email from him.  He just flew the same flight on Saturday.


Dnil


Excellent! Great to hear that. Thanks, Dnil.

Just goes to show once again that it's better to be lucky than good.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!