Early War Armor

[derkojote23]

Id love to see the Mk.2 Matilda since it was an early war tank. it would give a good alternet to the t 34.

[SMIDSY]

how would it be an alternate to the t-34? they are nothing alike.

[E25280]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
how would it be an alternate to the t-34? they are nothing alike.

Just a thought -- Because the T-34 is the only tank available in EW?

Matilda, PzkwIII or earlier version of PzkwIV, perhaps a French tank or two, BT-7 for early war Russian -- lots of gaps to fill, lots of choices to fill them.

[SMIDSY]

bt-7 is pritty much a tracked armored car. pathetic armor and gun even by early war standards. it was rarely used for anything other than gaurding flanks and recon.

nobody would drive the matilda in AH because it is so horrifically slow (24 km/h).

short barreled Pz. IVs were only usefull in the infantry support role due to their low velocity gun (comparable to the one on the LVT).

Pz. IIIs at the outset of the war were armed with a 37mm gun that could not penetrate allied heavy armor (Matilda, Char B1 and such). even when the J models came out, the gun (now a 50mm) was still inefective against allied armor (including the sherman).




early war tanks sucked because they were made to the standards of flawed military doctrine, that is why you never hear about them.

[derkojote23]

I only gave the Matilda as an option Thoe I believe she is in the same weight class as the T34, Not sure though. I like them and thay would be cool to use, as for the French ones,, Na Id rather see the Sumoa-35s, cromwells or crusaders.

[SMIDSY]

the matilda is what's called an infantry tank (which i will call ITs because i'm lazy). ITs were not ment to go fast, they had optimum armor and were designed to acompany infantry into battle. the french and polish had the best tanks of the early war, most notably the Sumoa-35. the Sumoa-35 was what was called a cavalry tank, which means it was made to go fast and operate indipendent of infantry support.

[MWL]

And the Pnzr III and Pnzr IVs beat the superior French tanks.  This was due to superior command and control / out flanking the enemy vehicles and attacking their weak points - generally the flank and rear.

Until the game model reflects the differing thickness of armor at varying angles, less well armed vehicles are extremely vulnerable as they lack adequate 'hitting' power on the 1st or 2nd rounds.


Regards,

[SMIDSY]

Originally posted by MWL
And the Pnzr III and Pnzr IVs beat the superior French tanks.  This was due to superior command and control / out flanking the enemy vehicles and attacking their weak points - generally the flank and rear.

that is only partially true, while such tactics worked on lighter allied tanks, it was useless against the heavy infantry tanks such as the Char B1 and the Matildas. the only thing that could effectively counter such tanks were aircraft and FlaK 88s

[Meatwad]

Char is pretty slow itself

[SMIDSY]

indeed it is, as were ALL infantry tanks. but it had very heavy armor.

[E25280]

Char B1-bis had an engine grill on the ?left? side of the tank that was easily penetrated by light armor peircing rounds.  The tracks on the Matilda and valentines were fairly vulnerable as well IIRC.

That is to say, even the "best" early tanks had vulnerabilities that could be exploited.

In the split arenas, something else is needed.  Any of these would be welcome.

[SMIDSY]

Originally posted by E25280
The tracks on the Matilda and valentines were fairly vulnerable as well IIRC.

only the Matilda I had exposed tracks, the Matilda II (which is the most well-known version) had armored tracks which were just as well protected as any other tank in service

Matilda I


Matilda II



Valentine Mk. I


Valentine Mk. III (no good pics of the Mk. II)




FUN FACT!!
The Matilda is the only tank in history to be given a woman's name.

[derkojote23]

And a song. LOL kidding. Waltzing Matilda was around first.

[Iron_Cross]

Oh, so many choices;

SOMUA S-35, Hotchkiss H39, Char D2, Matilda, PzrKfw-IIIG/H, M-3 Lee, M-2 Stuart.

Add them all, let the players sort them out.

[derkojote23]

How about a Catalina. Id love to see them in the game.