Bigger government ..

[Eagler]

Bigger government .. more of your tax dollars for less. How many more ppl will this put on the government payroll????

The Dumocrats succeed at enlarging the federal workforce again. How can anyone think the feds can run airport security better ie cheaper and more effectively, than private organizations held feet to the fire by an overseeing gov admin? Oh yeah, the airports have the "option" of "opting out" after two years.. tell me why in the hell any of them would want to do that? To pick up the cost and liability from the government??? It's forever, hope it works better than 90% of existing gov waste.

Anyone visit their local tax office lately? How long a wait did you have the last time you renewed your drivers license?

Gov orgs = inefficiency at its finest..  
 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,38856,00.html

[Gunthr]

I don't know about this one, Eagler. You and I are usually on the same page, but I'm not convinced that this shouldn't be a military function. (my wife disagrees with me on this, too)

We've all seen the dead heads at airport security checkpoints. It's tough to check thousands of people and items, day after day after day after day. I'm sure the checkers get to know some of the people that pass by them regularly, causing them to let their guard down. Even the far better paid uniformed police assigned to airports get complacent over time... getting too familiar with the people, and too comfortable with thier glorified security guard job.The longer they work there, the duller the edge.  

 The huge advantage in using soldiers for search and security at airports is that they can be rotated very often, ensuring a constant supply of new, sharp edged, enthusiastic and freshly trained men and women dedicated to thwarting terrorists.

I agree, it makes government a little larger, but I think this is one area where it is justified...


.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Gunthr ]

[Eagler]

Gunthr

I wasn't aware they were going to use soldiers. It sounded to me the employee's would be your typical gov employee - fat, happy and slooooowwww.

I'd agree with it becoming a National Guard function or other military responsibility though I feel private industry held to strict enforced federal guidelines would be as if not more efficient while being less "taxing" on our paycheck.

[Cabby44]

It's simply a tactic by the Democrats to create another Democratic constituency.  This "solution" is a joke, but what do you expect from that nest of pandering, (and increasingly irrelevant)pols, the US Congress???  

Especially the spineless, i-never-met-a-pork-project-i-didn't-like US Senate,  with such sterling characters as  Robert(The Klansman)Byrd, D-W.Va., Tom(Chicken-Head)Daschle, D-S.Dakota, and Ted(Mumbles)Kennedy, D-Mass.......

The "Federalized" Baggage Inspectors will be the VERY SAME people doing the job NOW, as long as they can prove US Citizenship.  What a boondoggle........

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Cabby44 ]

[Gunthr]

Eagler, actually I don't know if they have proposed using soldiers, either. But I wish they would.

I don't like the way they are going about this, with politicians comprimising with each other to come up with a "bill" that can get passed. Its probably gonna result in a half-assed system with options for this, exceptions for that, mixed authority and non-uniform standards depending on what "class" airport you are passing through in which part of the country?


I wish they would just look around at how the countries who are good at this do it, instead of this mish-mash.

[miko2d]

The current security companies did what they were hired and paid to do - they provided warm bodies to sit next to the screening machines.

 If the requirements for the job are spceified and constant (false items in the baggage every day/hour) tests are performed, the private guards will perform well enough.

 After all, we do not have government pilots flying the airplanes and we are not worried that the airline would hire some minimum-wage retard to attend the autopilot flying the planes - the regulations take care of that.

 miko

[Raubvogel]

Originally posted by Gunthr:
Eagler, actually I don't know if they have proposed using soldiers, either. But I wish they would.

Uhh...no thanks, I think I have better things to do than search airport luggage.

Making them federal employees isn't a bad thing. They'll be required to adhere to stricter guidelines, undergo a bit more background scrutiny, and hopefully the higher wages will make them a bit more interested in the work.

Really, it's not about who runs it...its about funding, training, and regulations. If you pay McDonalds wages, you're going to get McDonalds employees. Personally, I'd rather not have to rely on the folks who can't understand that I don't want onion on my Quarter Pounder to keep my family safe in an airplane.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Raubvogel ]

[Gunthr]

Raubvogel, you might be exactly the kind of guy we need doing this. You've got the correct mindset, you are assertive, you probabally have excellent interogation skills and a command presence, the ability to read body language, above average intelligence and technical knowlege, you are very comfortable and knowledgable with weapons, you would probably have no problem escorting a suspicious person off to a room for a body cavity search ( ) and you no doubt have the wherewithall to incapacitate an uncooperative person. Show me a security guard who can do that...

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Raubvogel:

Making them federal employees isn't a bad thing. They'll be required to adhere to stricter guidelines, undergo a bit more background scrutiny, and hopefully the higher wages will make them a bit more interested in the work.

Maybe it's just me, but this federal government employee finds the above statement absolutely hilarious.

[StSanta]

How can anyone think the feds can run airport security better ie cheaper and more effectively, than private organizations held feet to the fire by an overseeing gov admin...

Eagler, "better" does not automatically mean "cheaper".

You can hire a bunch of kids from India if you want it to be really cheap. Hell, do away with all the screening tools and it'll be even cheaper. And why have more than 1 person an airfield?

Recent incidents have indicated that what is needed is better trained people, better equipment, and more time spent. That means extra costs. These extra costs will most likely be covered by an increase in air travel, which will do a lot of good to the economy.

But, save a few bucks here, and lose a few millions in the overall economy, all in the name of a "smaller state".

There are some functions that should be left to the government I believe - some functions that are so important that they aren't really good for "let's do it cheaper" thinking. Especially not when such short sighted goals may have a very large influence to the economy as a whole.

People won't travel if they don't feel secure. In a country the size of the US, air travel is a necessity for many businessmen, holidaymakers and whatnot. Money well spent, I'd say. From what I've heard from my overseas pals, you've had an even more lax attitude to airport security than the Danes have - and that's saying a lot. And, you're much more under threat than we are.

Whatever you decide, think not short term money, but consider the implications of reduced air travel to the overall economy - then examine whether you'll actually get the money back if you invest them.

I should say that I ain't a fan of big governments either. Some balance is needed though: letting the government run selected functions is not necessarily automatically a Bad Thing(tm).

[fd ski]

And new homeland defence agency is a private corporation right ?

[weazel]

Originally posted by fd ski:
And new homeland defence agency is a private corporation right ?

It was mandated by the republitrash president so it is A-OK.
   

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: weazel ]

[Beegerite]

Know what, I too agree that many young and some old fast food workers are a bit unmotivated and uncaring but somehow I always find myself in the line for a number 7 value meal.
I grew up in a country where most street corners had two cops with sub-machine guns.  A few years back they were assailed by terrorism and the government was able to crush them almost out of existence.  How? no Bill of Rights that's how.  If the military thought you were a terrorist then you were and somehow you just disappeared.  Totally against every single principle of American democracy but effective.  Doing things the same way and expecting different results is insanity.
So there!
Beeg

 

Originally posted by Raubvogel:

If you pay McDonalds wages, you're going to get McDonalds employees. <snip> I'd rather not have to rely on the folks who can't understand that I don't want onion on my Quarter Pounder to keep my family safe in an airplane.
[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Raubvogel ]

[Beegerite]

And....speaking of security let me share an insider's view.  I work with international cargo.  Last week I had to visit some customers with whom I've been doing business for over 20 years just so I could officially say that they were legitimate known shippers and not a terrorist store front.  This visit had to be specific and separate from the at least 40 I've made to their facilities over the last 20 years.  That friends is the way our government reacts to these issues - stupidly.  On the other hand, shipments which come in sealed boxes from the 4 corners of the world are permitted entry into the USA under the same sporadic inspections that were always in place.  By my way of thinking considering what has actually happened the threat isn't as much going out, it's coming in and the easyest way to smuggle weapons of mass distruction into this country is in cargo shipments.  We need to inspect upwards of 70% of shipments if we're to feel warm and fuzzy otherwise nobody going to give a rat's bellybutton about baggage screeners when some container with a nuclear device explodes on a highway near Dayton, Savannah, Memphis or wherever taking the unsuspecting driver and perhaps millions of people in a wide radius.  Next time you're on the road take notice of how many ocean containers you see.  Where did they come from, who loaded them, have they been thoroughly examined?  
Spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt
Beeg

[Toad]

Well, they better get moving on SOMETHING better.

I was in that mess caused by the "security breach" at Atlanta on Friday. Landed at 1:30, sat on the taxiway till 4:30. Tried to make a flight out to anywhere within driving distance of Buffalo and finally got out at 3:00 AM on Saturday morning to Syracuse.

THOUSANDS of people were stranded. The system is just now (Sunday) getting back to "normal".

Delta reported 147 flights cancelled, resulting in monetary losses in excess of $10 million (no doubt inflated).

In any event, how long will this industry exist once the terrorists figure out that all they have to do to shut down the country for a day is to have one average looking guy bolt back into the "secure" area just as he exits from it?  

Imagine that scenario at JFK, LGA, ORD, ATL, LAX, SFO, SEA, MSP, PIT and DFW all right on the stroke of 12 noon a day or two before Christmas or Thanksgiving.

Don't need weapons or anything to do it either. But it'll bankrupt the airlines in nothing flat.

Time to figure out this security thing.