Author Topic: Mellencamp (Read 1566 times)

lukster · « **Reply #45 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:37:19 PM »

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Originally posted by FUNKED1
A straw man is where one person expects another to defend opinions or statement that the latter hasn't expressed.

I was trying to be funny, I'll never learn.

There was only one strawman and it was yours claiming we are socialists because we aren't ready to completely tear down the only structure in place for education, but I know you know that.

lukster · « **Reply #46 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:38:52 PM »

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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Well as a "professional educator" it sure looked like you were putting words in my mouth.
I thought it was clear from my statements that I support a system which would make schools accountable to an even greater degree than voucher programs.

I don't believe it's possible to make schools more accountable than to give their students to another when they fail.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:42:50 PM »

Parents still won't have enough control with vouchers. Just like with foodstamps the state will retain control over the products for which you may redeem your voucher. You'll have a list of schools which meet local/state/federal standards which will be controlled by the same assclowns who control things now.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #48 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:45:29 PM »

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Originally posted by lukster
I was trying to be funny, I'll never learn.

I was accusing Toad not you, sorry for the confusion.

lukster · « **Reply #49 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:46:00 PM »

Just the threat of real competition will force some public schools out of their lethargy.

Toad · « **Reply #50 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:49:31 PM »

What other option is currently on the table besides vouchers?

Business as usual is a disaster.

Vouchers might or might not be better.

Hmmm... known disaster vs possible improvement.

Let me ponder that one a while.

I'm done.

Vouchers.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #51 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:50:04 PM »

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Originally posted by lukster
Just the threat of real competition will force some public schools out of their lethargy.

If buyers are rational then this is true. Most of the parents I deal with just want their kid to get a good grade, so I'm skeptical. I think they will just go for the cheapest, easiest school.
I think vouchers could help things but I'd rather we just go all the way. Half-assing everything is what's got this country so screwed up.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:51:07 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
What other option is currently on the table besides vouchers?

On the table in this thread or among the electorate?

Toad · « **Reply #53 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:57:54 PM »

Something that has at least a chance with the electorate and is currently being discussed at least as much as vouchers.

Educate me, O Teacher!

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #54 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:01:55 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Something that has at least a chance with the electorate and is currently being discussed at least as much as vouchers.

In other words, anything BUT my option.

Toad · « **Reply #55 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:04:16 PM »

Fixed it... yours isn't really being discussed.

Or, if it is, the discussion hasn't made it out here to the cow pastures yet.

The thought of the government directly giving the people tax money!

Just where do you think that money comes from mister? We can't just be giving the people's money back to the people now! Shape up!

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #56 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:05:51 PM »

Government never should be allowed to confiscate that money in the first place. Taking it away and giving it back just... costs money.

Regardless, I doubt vouchers would be any worse than the current system, so you have my blessing.

Toad · « **Reply #57 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:06:21 PM »

From the rooftops, brudda!

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #58 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:08:00 PM »

VFTR

Sixpence · « **Reply #59 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:45:23 PM »

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Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, who pays the voucher, the feds, the state, or the city or town? Will all the private schools be required to do criminal background checks for hires? Will their salaries pay enough to hire good teachers, and if they can't, then what? I know local private schools are 4-5k a year just to get in(that was a few years ago)

Now, I have nothing against a voucher system if it works. Before we scrap the system and throw ourselves from the frying pan into the fire, it would be good to see it work first, or at least know how it works. I can't make judgement if I don't know.

I have no complaints yet where I am at. My two young ones are in a pretty good school, they are in small classes and the teachers are good. They look forward to going every day. So you would have to show me how better it would be before I pull the school out from under their feet.

Ok, I gave the voucher advocates a chance to answer some questions, and all I got was "competition will make it better". Sorry, but that isn't going to sway me away from the school my kids are in now.

Again, when I priced private schools a few years back, it was 4-5k a year just to get in. Am I going to get a voucher for 5k, or am I going to get $500.00 and be told to come up with the rest or send my kids to some dump? How will it work? Where is the plan? Will there be maximum class size? Will there be enough schools? Will the voucher be enough to produce more private schools? Will they go to low bids who will run them like slumlords?

My kids are in a good school, why would I risk throwing that away with all these unanswered questions? Not a chance.