Author Topic: A Spoiled Nation?  (Read 820 times)

storch

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A Spoiled Nation?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2006, 08:06:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
My little brother's moved to the US about 4 years ago.  He wasn't in the same situation as you've described, Seagoon, but what he knew up to then was nothing easy..  
In one of the French riots threads I described some things on topic, and at some point Dago said it all stank of lack of self respect.
That was true, and even at the time of the events I described, I knew it, and surely everyone involved knew it too, but they'd accepted it like feeble little sheep, lemmings with no spine to endure the upwards effort of improving their conditions, by doing nothing less than their best.
Before moving to the US, he had nothing, and was more or less sitting on the fence, between that lack of self respect, and pride and wisdom of knowing better than to just go that path of least resistance.

Now he's had long enough to aclimatize to the US completely, andmakes 2.5k a month on some semi-entrepreneurship, and has nearly given up his studies in marketing because "math is too hard".  Apparently he's managed to get stuck before even pre-calculus.. everything else is done, it's all he needs to do before the last stretch to his diplomas.
He spends all his earnings in fashion and clubbing, text messages and bank overdrafts.

When I get back, I'm going to kick his sorry ass...


driving a cab is a perfectly acceptable occupation and potentially a springboad to other careers.  what makes you think he might not do well?  he could end up with a string of cabs and others driving for him.  remember this is the land of opportunity and chance favors the bold.  you may come to learn that your baby brother will be the salvation for your whole family and make you all Americans.....oh the humanity.

Offline moot

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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2006, 08:18:02 AM »
Yes, what you said in this last post is true, but that's not his case...
He's going all soft and potato-couch stupid with all the ease and comforts of living in the US.  He's not milking all the opportunity for all it's worth.
He's on his way to being that no working at work guy, that's more aware of trite little entertainments, putting short term leisure before health and achievement.

He isn't being bold at all.  That job of his only makes sufficient profits when it finds stupid customer borderline scams.. car salesman tactics.   He sells cellphones.
He's sidetracking a solid commerce diploma to avoid being bold and owning those math classes, for some improvised job with no long term (or medium, as far as I can tell) guarantee.
Should he go down, likely as it is, I'll be there to kick his bellybutton to the top. After that he's on his own.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2006, 08:24:33 AM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2006, 08:23:01 AM »
When you let women vote and hold office you get a womanly country.   I bet that women are treated differently in those countries you describe eh?

No big deal really but don't allow women to run your society and then complain that it has become to womanly.

lazs

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2006, 10:01:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
When you let women vote and hold office you get a womanly country.  

lazs


And when you don't, you get the middle east
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lukster

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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2006, 10:40:31 AM »
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Originally posted by Sixpence
And when you don't, you get the middle east


Or America pre European.

the indian hunted and fished all day
paid no taxes
and the women did all the work
and the white man thought he could improve on this

 ;)

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2006, 10:43:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
Or America pre European.

the indian hunted and fished all day
paid no taxes
and the women did all the work
and the white man thought he could improve on this

 ;)


Seems like they shared the workload, they were not hunting and fishing for sport
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lukster

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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2006, 10:44:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Seems like they shared the workload, they were not hunting and fishing for sport


I'm sure that line was used quite often to their squaws. ;)

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2006, 10:47:07 AM »
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Originally posted by storch
Originally posted by Pongo

Its the birth place of the species.

really?  says who?
If you believe in evolution and the fossil record, the scientists say Africa.  If you believe the Garden of Eden story, then the theologians/priests say Africa.  Finding people who DON'T say the species started in Africa is a bit challenging, it ain't just a secular idea.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2006, 10:50:43 AM »
Seagoon, it is interesting you brought this up. There is a new fad in religion, one that states it's good to accumulate and strive for material things, to spoil ourselves. Do you agree with this?

And to be honest, I can't remember where I read it, but it was recently
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lukster

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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2006, 10:51:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Seagoon, it is interesting you brought this up. There is a new fad in religion, one that states it's good to accumulate and strive for material things, to spoil ourselves. Do you agree with this?

And to be honest, I can't remember where I read it, but it was recently


I don't think that's new Sixpence.

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2006, 12:49:53 PM »
Hi Sixpence,

Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Seagoon, it is interesting you brought this up. There is a new fad in religion, one that states it's good to accumulate and strive for material things, to spoil ourselves. Do you agree with this?

And to be honest, I can't remember where I read it, but it was recently


I'm not sure, but you are probably referring to the "Health and Wealth" movement.

Health and Wealth or the "Word of Faith" movement as it is sometimes called, came out of American Pentecostalism and has become tremendously popular. It even has its own television network - TBN - where Health and Wealth preachers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Haggin, Paul and Jan Crouch, Kenneth Copeland, and so on. Their television shows emphasize a "give to get message", that lures the gullible into sending them money under the pretence that the giver is "planting a seed" that will in due time produce a huge harvest of money from God. Needless to say, the only people getting rich are these false prophets.

The Word of Faith movement basically states that faith is a power, and that by the power of positive confession we can change the universe. They teach that God wants us to all be wealthy and healthy all the time, and that the only thing that stops us from attaining that goal is a lack of faith on our part. As such the movement itself has more in common, with gnostic cults like Christian Science than orthodox Christianity. Unfortunately the message strikes a cord with man's fallen desires, we want money and health and so a religion that tells us that it has key to having both all the time tends to resonate.

The Christian faith however, does not teach that God wants us to be healthy and wealthy all the time, in fact, it emphasizes that it is in the crucible in times of adversity that we grow most spiritually, and that following Christ involves self-denial and inevitably suffering on this side of eternity: As Christ Himself put it, "Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (Luke 9:23) While God can and does heal, and we are encouraged to pray to that end, sometimes it is not best for us or for His glory if we are healed. Surely, there was never a Christian whose faith was stronger than that of the Apostle Paul and yet scripture tells us that God answered one of his prayers for relief from suffering with a definite "no."

"Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (2 Cor. 12:7-9)

Paul knew that God uses all things for the ultimate good of his people, and understood that even suffering and tribulation can work to the good of the Christian and form the kind of character and perseverence that truly adorns a persons profession of faith, therefore he wrote: "And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope." (Romans 5:3-5)

By contrast, the Word of Faith movement makes health and wealth into an all consuming idol, and encourages what is essentially a shallow and unbiblical religion of greed. It shouldn't surprise us that the age of spoiled brat behavior would develop a religious arm as well.

I have no problem calling the "health and wealth movement" a false gospel, and blight on the Christian faith, and several unified declarations produced by evangelicals have done the same, for instance, the recently produced "Together for the Gospel" Statement included the following declaration:

Quote
We affirm that our only sure and confident hope is in the sure and certain promises of God. Thus, our hope is an eschatological hope, grounded in our confidence that God will bring all things to consummation in a manner that will bring greatest glory to his own name, greatest preeminence to his Son, and greatest joy for his redeemed people.

We deny that we are to find ultimate fulfillment or happiness in this world, or that God's ultimate purpose is for us to find merely a more meaningful and fulfilling life in this fallen world. We further deny that any teaching that offers health and wealth as God's assured promises in this life can be considered a true gospel.


The following summaries of the origins and problems of the Word of Faith movement including profiles of the "main characters" presume that the reader is familiar with what orthodox Christianity teaches, but I'll list 'em anyway in the hope that they might be useful to somebody out there:

What's Wrong with the Faith Movement (part 1)

Freedom From the Faith Movement
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline lukster

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« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2006, 12:53:58 PM »
I seem to recall a certain Martin Luther having a similar problem with the Catholic church selling "indulgences".

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2006, 01:26:52 PM »
I agree, adversity can build character.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2006, 01:27:10 PM »
This guy is quite a hoot to listen to.

http://www.revike.org/

shamus
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FSO Jagdgeschwader 11

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2006, 02:01:52 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pongo

Its the birth place of the species.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote
Originally posted by storch
really?  says who?


Louis, Mary, and Richard Leakey,  Don Johanson, Zeresenay Alemseged, Will Harcourt-Smith, Fred Spoor, Bernard Wood, and many others in the paleoanthropological community.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!