Author Topic: Do You Use One All-Purpose Ammo? (Read 490 times)

Halo · « **on:** October 10, 2006, 08:01:52 PM »

Endorsing the axiom that one ought to train with what one would fight with, I'm trying to find if it's realistic to have one brand and type of ammo for both plinking or target shooting as well as home defense.

I realize it makes a huge difference what caliber/gauge we're talking about. I'm trying to standardize on just a few, i.e., .22LR, .30 Carbine, .357/.38, and 12-gauge.

It's easiest, of course, in the most affordable ammo such as .22LR. So far I'm fond of CCI Mini-Mag (copper plated hollow point, 36-gr, 1260 fps) as an all-around round for just about any .22 contingency (yes, only as a last resort for home defense).

The choice gets tougher as the calibers/gauges get larger. For .30 cal carbine, at just about the same price, 50 rounds of Magtech 110-gr FMC seem fine for target shooting and close enough in home defense over 20 rounds of Federal Power-Shok 110-grain soft-point RN.

For .357/.38, I think I ought to be shooting primarily .357 since that is what I would use in home defense. .38s are much cheaper but also tend to foul .357 revolvers more than exclusively shooting .357.

(Actually I'm close to deciding that the .30 caliber carbine for my needs can replace the .357/38 revolver. It does everything better, and I don't carry so I don't need the smaller print of a revolver.)

One problem is the fancy defense loads are much more expensive. I'm wondering how many of you have concluded that x plinking/target round is also good enough for home defense, and therefore shoot primarily what you also use for defense?

My Ruger Security-Six is still at Ruger getting repaired (.357 shell ejection problem and some keyholing), so I haven't shot that for the past couple weeks. I have some Corbon .357 125-grain JHP but that's too expensive to shoot regularly. I'm liking the more inexpensive Independence .357 158-grain JSP, and thinking surely it would be good enough as a home defense round too.

Shooting .38 would be cheaper, and the + plus loads a compromise although so expensive might as well stick with a magnum. So I'd like to get comfortable and proficient enough to just regard my Security-Six as a .357 Magnum and find a reasonable round for both defense and target shooting.

My double-barrel 12-gauge coach shotgun could shoot 3-inch shells, but after blasting some 2 3/4 00 magnum and No. 1 buckshot, those are plenty maximum for me. And at about 75 cents a shot, they're way too expensive to shoot more than a few times a year for minimum proficiency.

Naturally this choice is not quite the same since I don't hunt and there are few targets I'd be shooting at with 00 or No. 1. I have some Winchester reduced recoil No. 8 birdshot for informal skeet shooting, but of course that would be way too light for home defense.

However, I'm still looking for a reduced recoil and less expensive No. 1 for home defense, and if it exists, I guess that will be the best combo along with the reduced recoil No. 8 for skeet.

Overall, I've basically concluded that for home defense it's tough to beat a short-barrel (e.g., coach) shotgun and/or carbine. They're adequate close-range long guns, and super close-range short guns.

I've read lots of threads about ammo lethality and best choices, but want to doublecheck here to see if I'm missing anything. Any ideas?

Incidentally, one of the most interesting -- and informal -- ammo effect sites I've found is this one:

theboxotruth.com

It has proponents and detractors, but basically is what it is, and I think it's a provocative do-it-yourself complement to more formal ammo testing.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2006, 08:12:23 PM »

For use in the 357 Magnum for defense I strongly suggest a +P+ 125 grain jacketed hollow point.

For anything other than wasting time, 158 grain soft point is useless. More commonly known as the "widow maker", and not for killing people, but rather for failing to kill people shot with it.

Halo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2006, 08:48:31 PM »

Excellent point. I'm curious how many people have found ammo that they can afford to use for both plinking/target and defense.

As the link shows, the essential efficiency question seems to be:
Will the bullet penetrate and shock sufficiently to disable the target?

Because potential situations and targets vary so widely, I'll be surprised if many people actually do use one particular type of ammo for all situations requiring a particular caliber/gauge. I'd sure like to, but I'm not sure it's a realistic option.

It's an important question. For example, it is a huge difference to leisurely practice shooting a revolver at a range in the daytime with .38 Special ammo, wearing eye and ear protection, and then expect to effectively fire it at night in a stressful situation with .357 Magnum and no eye or ear protection.

It definitely would be better to at least be using the same ammo.

Ghosth · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:16:58 PM »

Halo for the 12 gauge, anything inside 20 yards is going to make very little difference. Heck you can just as well shoot plain ol high base 6's or Trap loads. Cheap, fine to practise with, and for inside the house ranges, its really not going to make much difference. That 12 bore is going to leave a bloody big hole no matter what size shot you use at that range. Plus inside the house the 6's will bounce & ricochet less, doing less collatoral and structural damage to things like plumbing & wireing, furnature, kids, & spouces.

I do personally vary my rounds for my pump 12.

First 2 up are trap loads, next 2 are 0's or 1 steel goose loads.
Last one down the pipe is a rifled slug. But I really don't recomend them for home defense. For most situations the 6's are better.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:23:52 PM »

You should be able to find the 125 grain JHC +P+ ammo in various versions from several ammo makers. I don't think you need high dollar premium stuff. Yes CorBon is good stuff. But the 357 Magnum isn't a marginal round that needs help from trick ammo. When I carried for duty, I carried a S&W 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum, loaded with Federal 125 grain JHC +P+ ammo. I kept the same ammo in it at home. Yes, it is loud, and has sharp recoil. Any smaller caliber ammo that is effective is going to share those characteristics. You should be able to buy that ammo anywhere, Federal still makes it. You don't have to buy high dollar stuff, just don't buy the cheapest you can find.

Now, auditory exclusion that occurs under stress will prevent you from being truly deafened DURING a confrontation (your ears will ring afterwards, and you'll suffer short term hearing loss). Anything with power is going to have enough muzzle flash to have an effect on night vision.

As far as affording it, I reload. So I cut the price of ammo a BUNCH. But it costs about $200 to get started, maybe more where you live, maybe you can pick up a used setup for less. But reload duplicates of factory ammo for practice, and save the factory stuff for actual defense. Home loaded ammo is a LEGAL liability when used for defense, although it can be just as reliable if not moreso than factory ammo. IF you decide to reload.

Widewing · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2006, 11:09:53 PM »

Go to this website and browse the test data....

Firearms Tactical

My regards,

Widewing

rpm · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2006, 12:18:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
Halo for the 12 gauge, anything inside 20 yards is going to make very little difference. Heck you can just as well shoot plain ol high base 6's or Trap loads. Cheap, fine to practise with, and for inside the house ranges, its really not going to make much difference. That 12 bore is going to leave a bloody big hole no matter what size shot you use at that range. Plus inside the house the 6's will bounce & ricochet less, doing less collatoral and structural damage to things like plumbing & wireing, furnature, kids, & spouces.

I do personally vary my rounds for my pump 12.

First 2 up are trap loads, next 2 are 0's or 1 steel goose loads.
Last one down the pipe is a rifled slug. But I really don't recomend them for home defense. For most situations the 6's are better.

That's close to how I keep my home defense 12ga loaded.

nirvana · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2006, 12:29:15 AM »

I've always felt that a bullet of any type flying at me 1000+ FPS is enough defense, ability to aim just makes clean up harder. In that I conclude an ammo that will run through without jamming would be pretty fine.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2006, 01:00:30 AM »

I shoot mostly Wolf 230gr FMJ out of the 45. At home I'm loaded with 165gr Hydrashok low recoil. I shoot enough of the JHP to make sure it functions OK, and I find I'm always more accurate than with the cheap Wolf crap. Shot the Hydrashoks into some milk jugs and they go through the first jug and then basically shatter in the second jug, riddling the back of it with bullet fragments. I don't anticipate going up against any armored bad guys, so Good Times.

As far as long arms I figure Lake City M2 Ball will kill anything I hit, and it's cheap as hell for practice.

In the SKS, Wolf JHP is just as cheap as Wolf FMJ so I'm shooting that more. Also the JHP is hilarious against milk jugs. They basically dissappear.

SuperDud · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2006, 06:59:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
Halo for the 12 gauge, anything inside 20 yards is going to make very little difference. Heck you can just as well shoot plain ol high base 6's or Trap loads. Cheap, fine to practise with, and for inside the house ranges, its really not going to make much difference. That 12 bore is going to leave a bloody big hole no matter what size shot you use at that range. Plus inside the house the 6's will bounce & ricochet less, doing less collatoral and structural damage to things like plumbing & wireing, furnature, kids, & spouces.

I do personally vary my rounds for my pump 12.

First 2 up are trap loads, next 2 are 0's or 1 steel goose loads.
Last one down the pipe is a rifled slug. But I really don't recomend them for home defense. For most situations the 6's are better.

I agree 100%

Dinger · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2006, 08:43:49 AM »

Usually, it's DPICM. I know, it's going out of fashion, so I can get ahold of it fairly cheap. Otherwise, nothing beats HE/VT.

lazs2 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2006, 08:58:04 AM »

I don't put too fine a point on it... I reload so... shoot a lot of ammo plinking.

Even tho I reload... I put hydroshoks in my 44 and 45 guns and I use the 125 grain federal .357 HP in "noisy cricket" 340 PD. All are factory rounds.

I trust my reloads and would feel confident with em but the hyrdoshocks are just better.

funked is on the right track...shoot all kinds of ammo to play around with and that is cheap... any shooting is good.

I shoot lots of ball and lead SWC's and such out of my handguns... whenever I see cheap jacketed slugs I buy a few thousand. Mostly, I shoot lead tho... I can load lead for about $4 a box.. cheap shooting and very accurate. I load em to about factory levels for the self loaders and both light and heavy for the revolvers.

lazs

Halo · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2006, 11:28:15 PM »

(quote) Go to this website and browse the test data....

Firearms Tactical (unquote)

Interesting stuff, including the FBI report on the infamous Miami shootout where one bad guy with a .223 carbine did more damage than all the FBI agents with their handguns.

That of course helped motivate law enforcement toward more potent ammo and firearms. The FBI victims were using mostly .38 and 9mm. One had a .357 but loaded with plus .38.

I think I'll generally fire only .357 Magnum in my .357 revolver because the only time I would use that would be in home defense, and I think practicing too much with .38 might ultimately be detrimental.

For example, I fired a hundred rounds of so of .38 in my Ruger Security-Six and thought everything was fine. Then after firing only a few rounds of .357 I found I had a problem with two cases not ejecting.

That's being fixed now, but it's another good lesson in the importance of practicing with the same ammo that would be relied on in a crisis.

Vulcan · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2006, 11:52:34 PM »

Best ammo in the world and its free.

Wolfala · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2006, 11:57:13 PM »