This can't be historically accurate

[Krusty]

I'm flying around in a 262 tonight and I try to cover v55 in LWA1. A steady stream of lower cons are trying to stop the fellows on the ground from taking the field, then once we take it they try to attack it. So I've got plenty of targets. It's just 2-3 at a time, and I've got a friendly most of the time, so I'm actually mixing it up, getting slow, scrubbing speed and E and working for the angle shots.

What burns my biscuits is the fact that I fired over a thousand 30mm rounds that sortie (rearmed 3x) and only less than 1% ever hit. I happened across some bombers with some squaddies, so that was something, but the 6 n1k2s, the p51d, the yak9u and the la7 I fought (on and off over an hour's time, didn't get hardly any of the kills) I had countless (read: so many I can't count) perfect shots where I set up and was d300 or less behind them they were in a pulling turn one way I was at the perfect angle my way, I open fire... and ....

Not a damn thing. I made a game of it. I set up my angles well ahead of them and fired a steady stream directly in front of them some ways out (also taking into account the drop of the shells) and no less than 6 times the n1k2s, low, slow, not pulling many Gs, flew through the rounds. They flew.... THROUGH... 4x30mm gunfire, each gun firing at least 20 rounds a second.

This BS went on the entire sortie. Finally the LA7 tried to HO me so I took it (shooting him down -- never ho a 262, ever), and landed, thoroughly tired of the LW 30mm gun model.

There is no way any LW pilots in the war would EVER (repeat EVER) have gotten 1 kill if they were this way in the war.



How can these guns be historically accurate? They're nearly impossible to hit with. With 20mms you can hit at d400 pretty easily. Above that it's hard. With 50cals you can hit regularly at 800. With the damn 30mm guns you can't even THINK of firing unless your target is stalled, on the ground, has its gear down, and is otherwise totally motionless and is less than d200 range. There's just no way this is the same gun that shot down countless thousands of US and British planes over France and Germany.

[Debonair]

although it sounds like it could be historically accurate (i would wager that in recent history many people have been not as good as they thought they were at online games), seems like you may suffer from packet loss.
try getting closer to your neighbor's wireless router.

[Krusty]

Nope, not packet loss. Just bad guns. No other guns do this, it seems.

[Knegel]

Hi,

you should try the 30mm in a  H2H game with unlimited ammo, then you can get a good feeling for the lead while deflection shooting.

The MK108 was one of the guns with slowest muzzelvelocity, almost the half of the M2, hispannoII and MK103. Therefor it need VERY much lead while shooting to a turning plane and on long range in general.

Another important point with the MK108 in AH is the convergence setting. Try to set it to the max range, i get best results then!

Imho the MK108 is pretty ok now! Before the last update i always thought it shoot heatseakers.


Greetings,

Knegel

[trotter]

when flying the 262, this is usually my game plan:

1- get in close
2- get in closer
3- start firing, but realize i am still too far
4- get closer
5- shoot
6- collide with wreckage


but seriously krusty, you are better than that. did you try using only one set at a time? doubles your ammo, doubles your chances. 30mm are powerful enough so you can get away with this.

and sometimes, you know what, it may just be a bad sortie/few sorties. in the last few sorties i've flown, i swear, i can't hit anything with quad hispanos in either the temp or typhie. it's terrible. just be glad you dont have this problem.

[Benny Moore]

You know that they were designed for use against bombers and were disliked by the fighter pilots for use against fighters, do you not?  And they are not firing twenty rounds per second, they are firing less than ten rounds per second.

[Saxman]

Krusty, I'm not so sure it's the 30mm. I have the exact same problem with LUDICROUS frequency against N1K2s in my D-Hog. Even under low deflection, when I KNOW I've got the proper lead, the N1K flies right through my bullet stream without taking so much as a hit.

The same thing with Hurri IIc's. I've even checked my wing angle to make sure he wouldn't be flying through the gap between my guns, but somehow rounds just...bend around him and he flies off without a hit.

[Ball]

I fly 262 all the time and regularly get a 20%+ hit ratio in it.

i set one set of guns to converge at 150, and the other set at about 300 to get a bit of a shotgun effect.  Do not press fire, tap it, shoot at point blank range all of the time - as close as possible.  I even went through a stage of having a 40% hit ratio in it doing this.

It sounds cowardly but if you have a group of cons who know you are there - do not bother trying to kill them.  They will just HO or evade most of the time, you are better off flying out of icon range and returning with speed below them to bounce.  I find 262 is just the perfect ambush plane.

If it helps i will try and dig out a film.

[Stang]

I think you need some serious work on your aim.

[Tony Williams]

Luftwaffe figures for hit rates were 2%-5%. And that was against big, steady bombers, and with all types of cannon, not just the Mk 108.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[Charge]

Or maybe the code cannot handle the extreme closure rates?

"You know that they were designed for use against bombers and were disliked by the fighter pilots for use against fighters, do you not?"

Intersting. I didn't know that. From what I have read the pilots thought they were pretty good because usually one or a couple of hits was enough on any fighter sized target. Only the flying chunks of debris from exploding plane proved to be dangerous to the shooter.

-C+

[Krusty]

Trotter: I know that tip, yep. I was alternating between all 4 and "just 2". Normally I fire primary until it's gone, then secondary. However, the "flying through the bullets" crap got annoying so I started firing all 4 to double my chances for a hit.

Saxman: *insert Twilight Zone music here *

Stang: Well that's a given. However I can still get kills with almost any other gun in the game. By that I mean fighter vs fighter kills, on moving targets. So while my aim very much does suck, I still get kills. Unless I'm using LW 30mm. Then I don't. So I'm thinking it's not just my gunnery skills, in this set of circumstances.

Charge: In most of these cases I was scrubbing speed, slowing down, popping flaps and going for the angles fight. I wasn't just busting through at high speed (only did that maybe 10% of the time, this sortie). So the closure rate wasn't really that high.

[Ball]

I love the way that keep missing your target, so you automatically assume that it cannot possibly be your aim but it must be a problem with modelling

[Badboy]

Hi Krusty,

Originally posted by Krusty
What burns my biscuits is the fact that I fired over a thousand 30mm rounds that sortie (rearmed 3x) and only less than 1% ever hit.

I think 30mm cannon is always going to be the most difficult to hit with, because of the lower muzzle velocity and lower rate of fire. That means that you will get far lower projectile density and longer time of flight, and thus greater gravity drop. Each of those things conspire to make it harder to hit, and I haven't even checked dispersion, which I suspect will also be greater for the 30mm.  

Because those things are so different from the other guns, judging it correctly is far more difficult, and the simple answer is to shoot at much closer range. I fly the 262 occasionally, and you are right, it is much more difficult, but you can get used to it and some players I've encountered are very good with the 30mm cannon, even with snap shots. I assume they fly it often and practice a lot.

I believe that the gunnery in AH is easier than it was in real life, but still better than any other simulation on the market.

Hope that helps...

Badboy