Author Topic: What has changed?  (Read 2467 times)

Offline Helm

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What has changed?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2006, 10:10:54 AM »
The Big Squads that work together are the only thing that has the power to "move" the map around.  In this respect I admire them for this ability.  I get bored upping at the same bases and flying to the same enemy base, mission after mission.  So a big squad that captures bases is a good thing to me.  Plus its fun to sneak past them and whack their goon!

If the mega-squad capturing bases bothers you.  Kill the barracks at your enemy's nearby bases and your problem is solved.  2 players working as a team can shutt down an entire front.  The mega-squad gets bored,  and looks for an easier target.  



Helm

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Offline bozon

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What has changed?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2006, 10:40:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
The only thing I can think of is redesigning the game to funnel the base takers and the air to air guys into the same space so they have to deal with each other.  

There is a way - small maps and low areana caps. This is what HTC are aiming for IMO (with partial success so far).

When the front is just 3 bases wide and relatively close, they will not find undefended bases where no one is looking. Furballers will be attracted to the big red bars if they launch a mission and flock in. This is how it worked 2-4 years ago till numbers got so high that the big maps appeared. I would also increase radar range so these swarms are detected sooner.

Also, destroying buildings should only be possible with rockets and bombs - no cannons/mg. This will mean you'd need bombers and attack planes to take a base/town down, not a swarm of strifing N1K and 110s that also escort themselves + cap + vulch. "Soft" targets such as acks and radar, OK, strife them, but not bunkers, hangars or buildings.
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Offline SlapShot

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What has changed?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2006, 10:46:33 AM »
Why do some people not understand that some folks don't want to furball just for the sake of furballing.

What is being pointed out here has nothing to do with furballing ... it's about fighting.

What some of us don't understand is why do groups such as this attack bases that have no one home ? ... why don't they look at the map, find a large red dar bar near an enemy base and try to take that base. Some of believe that they don't because they can't face the fact of a possible failure and if they tried to fight ... they will lose/fail.

Where some of you don't see the point of land-grabbing, others may not see the point of furballing just to furball.... you fly, kill a few, get killed, rinse and repeat. There is not purpose or point to say who won or lost (as a team). After all that is why there are teams correct? If the point of the game is individualistic combat, then why not just put a handfull of bases close together and have an every man for himself game. Last one standing (or in this case flying) wins.

Fighting in a furball can be about teamwork .. especially if flying with squaddies ... so don't kid yourself there.

There is a purpose ... at least for me ... the purpose is to outfly your opponent(s) and kill him/them in a very hostile environment and then on to the next one. There is no better feeling for me than when I am head-to-head with another individual fighting for my cartoon life and beating him .... the second best feeling is flying my pants off and getting killed.

Going back to the football reference, what good would it do for two teams to meet on the field, if there were no endzones present?

How much fun would your football game be if there was not another team on the field or the other team just has a couple of players. Would marching down the field without opposition and scoring a touchdown be fun ? ... I think not. So how much fun is there is flying to an undefended base (away from the working front) and taking it ? This is what this thread, and others, is all about. You want to take bases ... then lets see you take them where the enemy has a working population.

It's not about furballing ... it's all about fighting.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2006, 10:51:10 AM by SlapShot »
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Offline dragon25

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What has changed?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2006, 10:58:34 AM »
I agree /w NCLawman's post. It's the great thing about the game. There is something for every type of player in the arena. Are you in the mood to drop the enemy HQ, to kill the dar? Furball? City killing? Factory killing? Long range CAS? Are you a tanker? All these can be done in these arenas.
If you a fighter pilot, go buff and escort killing! Fighter pilots, escort the buffs and kill the buff hunters! Things like that. Me, I haven't really found a "specialty" yet, as there is much that can be done in the context of the game. Fighter pilot is fun, but frustrating. Bomber pilots....time consuming but fun.....Tanker, Fun but not common.

My point....It's fun! Find what is fun for you and go do it.


Respectfully,
     Dragon

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2006, 11:07:24 AM »


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Offline jtdragon

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AS I SEE IT
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2006, 11:28:02 AM »
I SEE ONLY ONE WAY THAT A TRUE BALANCE ON ALL SIDES AND AREAS CAN BE HAD AND THAT IS FOR EVERYONE BE ASSIGNED TO A SIDE AND ARENA WHEN THEY LOG ON. Bye Bye Squads, sorry but must be fair to all. Friends, Oh sorry, want to play togather, luck of the draw. Would I like it, OF COURSE NOT.
JT

Offline NCLawman

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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2006, 11:37:19 AM »
Originally posted by SlapShot
What some of us don't understand is why do groups such as this attack bases that have no one home ? ... why don't they look at the map, find a large red dar bar near an enemy base and try to take that base. Some of believe that they don't because they can't face the fact of a possible failure and if they tried to fight ... they will lose/fail.

That is certainly one possible explanation.  The other might be that one of the "strat" types looked at the map, determined an open flank and ran a mission around the enemy side.  From there, you can push the enemy back by now attacking from 2 sides.   But I will add this as well.  Sometimes taking an empty base is a necessary evil.  You have to push the enemy far enough back to concentrate his forces in a smaller area.  I ask you to think of this OBJECTIVELY...  Don't we often get some of the best fights of the game when one team is backed into a corner on its last leg(like a trapped animal)?  When every member of the opposing side is concentrated into 8 or 10 of the bases around HQ, do we not get the best fights and furballs as they try to hold the last of their bases.  They sometimes even mount an effective counter-strike and retake a base or two.  And those I assure you are not easy takes nor undefended.

There is a purpose ... at least for me ... the purpose is to outfly your opponent(s) and kill him/them in a very hostile environment and then on to the next one. There is no better feeling for me than when I am head-to-head with another individual fighting for my cartoon life and beating him .... the second best feeling is flying my pants off and getting killed.

I don't disagree that you find the one-on-one exhilerating.  I also like the individualistic combat.  But I equally like playing as a team and achieving a goal.  I have always played team sports (baseball, softball, basketball, football) and as a result I like being a "team" player.  That having been said, I emphasize, there is NOTHING WRONG with the way you play the game, nor your view of the game.  But equally so, there is nothing wrong with the opposite view either.

How much fun would your football game be if there was not another team on the field or the other team just has a couple of players. Would marching down the field without opposition and scoring a touchdown be fun ? ... I think not. So how much fun is there is flying to an undefended base (away from the working front) and taking it ? This is what this thread, and others, is all about. You want to take bases ... then lets see you take them where the enemy has a working population.

Again, I refer to the above statement in that taking an undefended base in NOT the entire football game.  It is merely one play in the game that pushes one down field closer to the goal.  Just like in the game of football, you have to have some plays that are running plays right up the middle (smash-mouth football).  You have to have some plays that are end-around (pitch-out.)  And, finally you have to have passing plays.  The effective use of various plays opens the field and allows you to drive toward the endzone.  Same in this game.  Some times you have to run the GVs right up the middle.  Sometimes you have to do and end-run around the flanks.  And other times you have to launch a deep mission into the back side of the enemy to draw them away from the front so you can then go back and push up the middle.

That having been said, I also don't find a great deal of satisfaction in taking a completely undefended base, though sometimes it happens (for above reason).   This is why I go to the arenas with the highest numbers.  If it were a matter of steamrolling bases, I would go to the unpopulated arenas (MW in early mornings for example) and roll-on unchecked.  But, you are right.. what is the fun of that.  That truly would be the example you cited of only one football team showing up to play.
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Offline jtdragon

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What has changed?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2006, 11:39:48 AM »
Love the rush of a big fight, going after someone while having to watch what is happening around you. I would think it takes as much skill to fly in that as it does to fly one on one.
JT

Offline SlapShot

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What has changed?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2006, 11:43:52 AM »
NCLawman ... I don't disagree with anything you have said. I too belonged to a premiere base taking squad (back in the day) and know all too well the strategic aspects of this game ... the difference was when I was a strat player, my squad went where the numbers were and took those bases ... we even went on the "All" channel and told them where we were going next. I too did get a charge out of running an NOE mission and taking some obscure (undefended) base, but that was not our SOP.

In my opinion ... taking undefended bases is the norm now ... not the exception.
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Offline NCLawman

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What has changed?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2006, 11:53:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
NCLawman ... I don't disagree with anything you have said. I too belonged to a premiere base taking squad (back in the day) and know all too well the strategic aspects of this game ... the difference was when I was a strat player, my squad went where the numbers were and took those bases ... we even went on the "All" channel and told them where we were going next. I too did get a charge out of running an NOE mission and taking some obscure (undefended) base, but that was not our SOP.

In my opinion ... taking undefended bases is the norm now ... not the exc
eption.


To that point I can neither agree nor disagree.  I would hope that that is not the case but I have no way to argue that issue.

to you and your opinions, sir.
Jeff / NCLawMan (in-game)


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Offline Bizman

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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2006, 12:00:42 PM »
For those, who argue about some groups attacking empty bases...

I can't tell, what other groups/squads/etc do, but many of us Finns like to do something that has a goal. Taking bases is such activity. Massive sweeps with similar planes to the biggest red darbar is too. As for taking bases one strategy is to calculate a suitable set of jabos, fighters and goons to sneak in, many times under dar. Flying a heavy jabo uphill between trees craves for some flying skills, too!

As for milkrunning, I suppose we don't do that, if the term means some 30 uber-planes hordes swarming from one base to another. In case there's that many of us online, we usually split to take a base and disable it's nearby defending bases. I guess that's called strategy. Surface sneaking to the biggest red darbar is called suicide, or stupidity, IMHO.

Offline Max

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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2006, 12:18:45 PM »
You folks can argue FB vs TS until the cows come home. The only way toolshedding's gonna end is by eliminating the "war win" and making all hangars
indestructable. Call me when Hitech implements those changes cuz hell's likely to be frozen over.

Offline 1Boner

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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2006, 12:30:42 PM »
why are all the whining furballers (oooops i mean -fighters) crying about people taking bases and hording etc??? they don,t play that way---they fight----they don,.t defend bases because they only care about the fight----why are they so vocal about the way other people play???? how does it affect the way they play???---go to fighter town ;and stfu!!!   LAZS SAID MEGASQUAD AGAIN!!!!-----ONE TRACK MIND ---the ones i see complaining over and over and over and over (lazs of course--storch and slapshot) never talk about HOW people taking bases affects their gnat like buzzing around in fighter town-----i mean --that would be your perfect map right guys??--one big fighter town--------
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Offline SuperDud

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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2006, 02:45:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1Boner
why are all the whining furballers (oooops i mean -fighters) crying about people taking bases and hording etc??? they don,t play that way---they fight----they don,.t defend bases because they only care about the fight----why are they so vocal about the way other people play???? how does it affect the way they play???---go to fighter town ;and stfu!!!   LAZS SAID MEGASQUAD AGAIN!!!!-----ONE TRACK MIND ---the ones i see complaining over and over and over and over (lazs of course--storch and slapshot) never talk about HOW people taking bases affects their gnat like buzzing around in fighter town-----i mean --that would be your perfect map right guys??--one big fighter town--------


Have you looked at the boards lately? If anyones been crying lately it's the war winners. Most of us furballers are happy as can be, the new changes are great.:aok

And yes, the perfect map would be 1 big fighter town.
SuperDud
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Offline Oldman731

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What has changed?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2006, 03:11:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1Boner
why are all the whining furballers (oooops i mean -fighters) crying about people taking bases and hording etc??? they don,t play that way---they fight----they don,.t defend bases because they only care about the fight----why are they so vocal about the way other people play???? how does it affect the way they play???---go to fighter town ;and stfu!!!   LAZS SAID MEGASQUAD AGAIN!!!!-----ONE TRACK MIND ---the ones i see complaining over and over and over and over (lazs of course--storch and slapshot) never talk about HOW people taking bases affects their gnat like buzzing around in fighter town-----i mean --that would be your perfect map right guys??--one big fighter town--------

Having watched these boards for the past month, it's pretty clear that there is a very large group of people who would be just as happy flying a boxed game against AI, so long as they could have their squad members flying with them.  My sons have shown me similar games on their X-box.  For that kind of person, I guess, the fun is all in being together and bombing or strafing things, or in hearing the gong go off when they achieve a reset (btw...is that what happens?).  It doesn't really matter too much if there is opposition, and certainly human opposition isn't something they welcome.

As many have said - for years - you can play as you wish.  But you really shouldn't expect that anyone who enjoys reasonably balanced person-to-person competition is going to (a) respect your choice, or (b) stop making fun of you.  Hey, you should be happy, you aren't interested in their opinions in the first place, right?

- oldman (who bristles when he sees something like Nomak posted)