ok,lets try this--Fighter arena??

[stantond]

Not to reminise too much because a.) no one really cares and b.) not many know what I am talking about... but even in AW III's fighter town there were people who didn't want to dogfite.  While there were some regulars there (HR comes to mind), most just came in occasionally much like the DA now.  I remember one cpid, Emrld, who would do everything possible to vulch in fightertown and went to amazing lengths in the process.   There will always be someone who doesn't want to get with the group.  Score was kept back then in the fightertown arena, so that may have been some motiviation.

So, in getting to a point.... back in the day fightertown was a good place to go as a new player and get some experience with gunnery and a quick dogfight.   It never really had a large player base, but there was almost always someone to fight.  If more people (or even a few) were in the DA, it would work for the same purpose.  Getting rid of puffy ack and strengthening auto ack would stop vulching (for the most part) and make the DA a 'better place', pretty much turning it into type of fightertown.  IMO a scoring system is needed in a fightertown (or converted DA).  While score has no real value, it  motivates competitive people.



Regards,

Malta

[BigR]

I say we should all get our own arena so we can play with ourselves.

[airspro]

Idea

[stantond]

Part of the argument in the past for not having a fighter town has been that there isn't a spare arena available for a fighter town.  I think that argument is not really there anymore.  Now, the biggest hinderance to something like a fighter town is player support.  

If enough players say they want an arena for dogfighting without base captures, vulching, gv's, or strat elements, I can't imagine why HT would not want to accomodate them.  The biggest issue I see in making a fighter town arena is having enough players that want a separate arena.  I would support it, but that's probably not a mystery.


Regards,

Malta

[CAV]

The AW "Fightertown" did do one good thing. It ended the food fights on the AW forums about capturing bases and furballing. The Furballers had a place to go dogfight all they wanted. And the war in Big Pac went on without any needs of an....  "Gentlemens agreement" with regards to base capture.

CAVALRY

[Overlag]

Originally posted by storch
please don't misunderstand me here because I enjoy an occassional mission and often help out if I like the players asking for help.  my question is just exactly how is it that "you win the war"?  does the map not reset and it starts over again?  do you want to win the war to collect 25 points?  I don't fully understand this overpowering need to win the war displayed by many toolshedders.

I could understand picking a base that was well defended and then putting up a skillfull co-ordinated three pronged assault to capture it.  I would consider that fighting and I would consider that fun.  where is the satisfaction in rolling undefended bases repeatedly until you "won the war"?

I honestly don't get it, I wish one of you toolshedders would enlighten me.

to me this is the equivalent of akak's repeated akakosphere bounces on otherwise engaged players or afk players and then he being all chest puffy about his greatness.

none of that makes sense to me, there is no fighting involved.

because its fun *fighting* to win the war, and gives a overall goal to the game?

its also tactical.

Counter strike took off so well because it was a team based mod, with things to blow up, or rescue... Halflife DM was simple run and gun (like furballing turn and gun). CS ended up eclipsing HL-DM, and all DM games (much like the tactical guys eclipsing furballers) and guess what, we have fun. You could fight the tactical guys, instead you just whine when your base is captured.

hmmmmm

[LYNX]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
The game hasn't evolved a bit with regards to the basic game-play structure. What happened was we got another few hundred (maybe thousand) players who never really got to the top of the learning curve(arguably got nowhere near it). The path of least resistance became the only avenue to success for missions and capture attempts, and that's what we see today. Captures and the struggle between opposing cartoon forces are still part of the game, if not so much part of game-play currently. Some of us like the struggle more than the capture, and some don't want any part of the struggle whatsoever. That's no change in the game, but rather in the people playing it.

A very rounded explanation with regard to your side of the argument.  As you are a aware I lean toward and am basically a strat player.  I to agree with :-
The game hasn't evolved a bit with regards to the basic game-play structure.
Having played here since November 2002 (Warlox, Warbird refugee) I gotta tell ya base capture has always been based on " The path of least resistance ".  Sure ....things do turn ugly from time to time and a battle erupts to close the capture.  Sometimes the battles go the wrong way.  A "bust" is a "bust".  This is where I and others would prefer to move on.  You and yours would be as happy as Larry and keep banging away.  You guys like this stuff we don't.  It's been the same in every Sim I have played.

(Some of us like the struggle more than the capture, and some don't want any part of the struggle whatsoever. )

That's no change in the game, but rather in the people playing it.

I agree with the above sentence but on arguably different grounds.  Where people have changed is in their conduct.  Unlike days of old we are inundated with low level bombers.  Bombers an bailers.  Pork an bailers (augers... still implies unintentional crash) suiciders and any other gamey watermelon you care to mention.  Whats more these guys are arguing their corner like it's all OK.  Your good bud Lazs2 hangers are taken out by the 400 ft Lancs in external view.  Not the guys who's at 20k after a 30 minute climb.  Your CV is more often taken out by dive bombing b24's not the 8 to 10k calibrated bomber.  Could HTC have coded out some stuff to kerb peoples behaviour?  I think he could have but it's to late now.  What we have is a "unhealthy community" that now needs some "pier pressure". ...ffs!

As for "learning curve" that's conjecture.

[lazs2]

Ok... don't get it... are you toolshedders saying that you want yet another arena the is nothing but furballs?

That would just draw off more numbers I would think.

It would not solve your problem and it certainly would not solve the problem of the guys who like to fly early or mid war planes in an fair environment.

The old fighter town had it's share of guys with the late war mindset of "its my 15 bucks and I am gonna take up the best plane in the arena and kill early war planes without danger to myself."

I think the very best solution would be to simply not allow early war and most mid war planes in the late war arena....

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Overlag]

Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... don't get it... are you toolshedders saying that you want yet another arena the is nothing but furballs?

That would just draw off more numbers I would think.

It would not solve your problem and it certainly would not solve the problem of the guys who like to fly early or mid war planes in an fair environment.

The old fighter town had it's share of guys with the late war mindset of "its my 15 bucks and I am gonna take up the best plane in the arena and kill early war planes without danger to myself."

I think the very best solution would be to simply not allow early war and most mid war planes in the late war arena....

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

none of this makes sence

no where did i see a toolsheder wanting rid of furballers

and what difference does it make if EW and MW planes are enabled in the LW arena? Dont you think people like killing uber niki's and lalas in EW/MW planes?

[mQuinn]

Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... don't get it... are you toolshedders saying that you want yet another arena the is nothing but furballs?

That would just draw off more numbers I would think.

It would not solve your problem and it certainly would not solve the problem of the guys who like to fly early or mid war planes in an fair environment.

The old fighter town had it's share of guys with the late war mindset of "its my 15 bucks and I am gonna take up the best plane in the arena and kill early war planes without danger to myself."

I think the very best solution would be to simply not allow early war and most mid war planes in the late war arena....

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Did you even read the original post?  It's not the strat guys that need a new arena.  It's the people that whine every time a base is captured.  Strat guys are fine with the way it is right now.

[lazs2]

overlag... I thinl people like killing early war planes in late war uber planes..

I think that if you could just make your plane turn on a dime and have on shot guns that were radar controlled that many would choose that option too...  

We have what people want right now... if you like early war planes and fighting in a fair (equipment wise) environment... you can do so.... If you don't like that you can go to an arena that is very much like the old MA.

if everyone is happy with the way it is then lets just leave it and let things shake out for a while.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Overlag]

dunno, you was the one disagreeing and throwing up weird points.

people like flying EW planes in MA, thats upto them

think of the arenas as being 1935-1940, 1935-1942, and 1935-1945

[doc1kelley]

Originally posted by storch
I don't think I can be called a BK groupie.  I'm pointing out the fact that in everything I recall reading all I ever see is griefers wanting the furballers to go away and not the other way 'round.

could you please post one example where anyone claims the toolshedders should go away?  I don't think you can.  here's my take on the matter. you (and others like you) are clearly intimidated by a style of gameplay you wish you were good at but are afraid to put up with the failure it takes to become proficient.

I understand how you guys who play the way you do would feel somehow threatened by people who could do what you do better than you and still beat you in a fighter v fighter game.

just saying.

Actually I've posted mega responses in favor of a place in the map for Furballers and Groundwellers and have never stated that I want the "Furballers" to go away.  I'm a griefer because I want a place where we can all do our fun?  get a grip bro or start reading more closely.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

[Simaril]

You can suggest all you want, but HT has repeatedly made it clear that separate fighter town areas are not in any way on the agenda.

He also said that the Donut map, which came closest to a dedicated fighter area, essentially snuck past his attention....and as i recall he implied that it wouldnt happen again. Remember that he's been involced when ideas like these were implemented in the past, with other sims, and he apparently doesnt like what he saw.

Whether any of us likes it or not, HT's vision for AH clearly includes players of different styles playing alongside each other and interacting despite their different approaches.

So instead of escaping each other, we should find ways to play the same game at the same times, even though we do it differently.

[stantond]

Oh, that certainly would explain some things.  I think you are correct Simaril.

I found that the fightertown concept in AW allowed me to 'brush up' before entering the MA.  I suppose other things may happen there too, but IIRC fightertown posed no threat to taking a player base from the MA.  While I probably wouldn't be playing AH if I hadn't played AW, I certainly would be more content having never played AW.



Regards,

Malta