Author Topic: Race to the reset.  (Read 5364 times)

Offline calan

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #150 on: November 21, 2006, 09:28:02 PM »
The implementation of this may be difficult, but....

What if instead of perks for a reset, you awarded perks for each base captured... BUT... the number of perks was based on the amount of defense you had to fight through?

No defenders = no perks. Lots of defenders = bigger perks.

You'd have perkers/horde looking for the payoff (requiring defenders and thus creating a bigger fight). Furballers would have plenty of fights, more defenders = better strat planning, etc etc.

The hardest problem would probably be to keep track of who had a part in what, and keeping up with the arena dynamics.

I dunno... just a beer-induced thought while perusing this thread  :-)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 09:30:14 PM by calan »

Offline sgt203

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« Reply #151 on: November 22, 2006, 12:13:59 AM »
If you change the game to include only a few fields that are able to be attacked you will have everyone, from every side at these fields...

This will lead to overly massive furballs with the overwelming advantage going to the defenders... They will not have to fly to get to the fight but will have to up from the field and get right back into the battle..

This would require all fighter hangers to be dropped prior to taking the field and you would be right back to having no one there to fight with as there are no planes upping..The smart play for a base capture would be to send in small amounts of fighters to deal with any CAP and then carpet bomb all the hangers with a few flights of bombers..

This would be a large stalemate at each and everybase along the way..

To take the "End Run" out of gameplay takes away from the actual tactical thinking required to defeat any enemy... The allies did not invade France during D-Day where the enemy forces thought they would did they??... They hit them in a spot that was 1. Not expected 2. less heavily defended.

The NOE missions I have either been invloved in, defending against, or happended to stumble upon are a loy of fun to be involved with.. On either side.. taking them out of the game though not a major blow to gameplay would be one less tactic any side could use to try and attack or divert an enemy force..

Lets not forget if you organize you can up from an adajcent field and conduct a fighter sweep to break the cap on a field to save the base..I have been involved with this numerous times and it is also alot of fun.. I have also been at a base where we have called for the Ltars who came in their ostis to help defend a base<>... It was fun for me to watch and Im sure fun for them having their sqaud called to assist..

I think the amount of ACK placed at the fields and towns has done wonders for slowing down the base rolling... I actually like it as it allows you to be able to defend by not being constantly vulched at will, it adds some element of risk to the player going for the vulch and gives you time to effectively defend a base... and it makes you have to fight for the base much more than before..

Porking rear bases, though not something Ive done to any real extent, is a part of battle... The additional ACK and addded barracks has made this much more difficult to do and most certainly extrememly difficult for one player to completely pork a field.. You do cut into an enemys supply thereby limiting his ability to fight...

I think the current changes are going to allow all "types" of players to play together more than before and are what is just about right to keep all players, who enjoy all different types af play to co-exist and enjoy the game together more than before..

Guppy<<>> I agree with you completely the toolshedder/furballer stereotypes should go away.. I dont consider any person any type of player I do say this or that person perfers to furball but they are not a furballer, they are a player period.. But just a small point... You see no point in playing an online game if the only intent is to avoid real folks, and frankly nor do I, but for someone out there who does lets not speak for them If they wnat to get in their plane and attack a field where no one is to them I say <> have your fun bud its your dime...

LTARcnuk and E25280 very good points<<>>
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 12:17:18 AM by sgt203 »

Offline Dantoo

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« Reply #152 on: November 22, 2006, 09:00:49 AM »
Quote
But as you say, a game play change that removes the end run as a method of strategic play.

This then creates conflicts that both types of players enjoy.


Hate BS threads like this one - but right there is a classic illustration of the harm that gets done when you just let this crap flow without comment.

One of the best ways to break up a horde attack when you are literally tens or even hundreds of players short of what is needed to mount a defence, is to grab a small group and "end run" round the horde.  Getting a vital base deep in their back can turn it around.  It worked well in real life at Inchon.

Now the loud have convinced the powerful that preventing these actions will "create conflicts that both types of players enjoy".  What drivel.

I guess if you get a small bunch of people saying something often enough and loud enough it becomes lore.  Propaganda is just as powerful as ever.
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline Tilt

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« Reply #153 on: November 22, 2006, 09:30:11 AM »
Going back to my original post I would draw attention to the point that the recent modifications have improved the situation greatly IMO.

Defense is more fun now and so the moving feast of conflict is occurring...............

The two areas where defence  does not occur or may not occur.......are

Quote
If defenders cannot respond to this move in time then they are removed from gameplay...........very demotivating

We may like to consider a method of enabling defenders to respond a little quicker to a changing point of attack. .


and

Quote
High level bombing attacks equally can accurately kill fields by ingressing above the normal combat altitudes without the defenders being aware of the attackers altitude until it is too late.............. presently the defenders are denied a responce to this form of attack unless they wait speculatively at altitude. This is boring. Fortunately it is equally boring for bombers to climb to 18/20K but one high altitude B24 formation can still take out all the FH's and the Vh of a small field and so a small minority of players (ie one)can remove local gameplay from a significant majority.

This is still the case


I would add that making the defence too easy would make it equally demotivating and boring for attackers.

A balance must be struck where both defender and attacker can tip the tide of conflict through skill and/or an appropriate excess of force.

Attackers should have to suffer some element of interception and fight their way to target. Presently they (attackers)can make first strike unopposed in the majority of cases following a switch from one point of attack to another.

Slightly earlier warning would give some initial conflict or at least allow defenders some responce in the early stages which would generate the airborn conflict we all desire.

Of course go too far and make the warning too much or inappropriately biased and the opposite is achieved.

At this point I would draw breath......the latest changes have changed stuff and I note that there is less rolling up of the map and defenders are responding more.......certainly during the Euro time frame I play in on the LW arenas.

This still leaves the innappropriate effectiveness of the lone high alt heavy formation............... It would seem reasonable to me that some warning is given re formations and their altitude (or just high alt incursions) such that defenders can climb to intercept knowing that they will have some combat/fight when they get there and that it is before the bombs are released and not afterwards

re "end run"

I admit I do not understand the term as used above........... Dantoo describes a point attack that concentrates a point  attack against a spread defence.............if defenders allow it then great..... eventually it fails of course there is no "red flag" to capture and win the war.

We play a war of attrition on a WWI model (ie moving fronts).......we do not play blitzkrieg or encirclement rules here.

End run discussion is a red herring as I see it.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 09:40:57 AM by Tilt »
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Offline Atoon

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« Reply #154 on: November 22, 2006, 10:01:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dantoo


Now the loud have convinced the powerful that preventing these actions will "create conflicts that both types of players enjoy".  What drivel.

I guess if you get a small bunch of people saying something often enough and loud enough it becomes lore.  Propaganda is just as powerful as ever.


LOL:rofl  Thats some funny stuff.


I've been having much more fun in the game lately, even with what lil time I have to play these days. I like the changes, I hope to see more.
Thanx for addressing the signature issue FAIRLY, I am morally aloud to patronize your business again. I am Anton & Uknome, Current game-ID Anton1.   *-Brown Nosers STINK!-*

Offline Atoon

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« Reply #155 on: November 22, 2006, 10:08:01 AM »
Last nite I flew in both arenas, I dont recall the colors, but in one arena the Rooks had more players than Knits or Bish, but there wasn't much action on the knit/bish front, so the fights were pretty good. I landed alot of killz & had a great time.

In the other LWA, there were much less Rooks, and still not much action on the Knit/Bish front. Classic race to reset.  I had a good time there as well, I lifted a cane2, & in 3 sorties landed 6 killz & died once. The fights were much more action packed, but the outcome was inevitable and the arena was reset. I had fun, but it wasn't as rewarding.
Thanx for addressing the signature issue FAIRLY, I am morally aloud to patronize your business again. I am Anton & Uknome, Current game-ID Anton1.   *-Brown Nosers STINK!-*

Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #156 on: November 22, 2006, 10:25:55 AM »
OK for all those who advocated ack is now more 'realistic'.

Here's realistic dar -

Radar typically didn't even go down as far as the 500ft we have in the arenas.
Our dot radar 'sees' through hills, no blind spots.
It was notoriously inaccurate regarding numbers and altitude.

Our current dar is way beyond what was available in WW2, how many planes (apart from nightfighters) had onboard radar at all.
Our radar is more akin to a GPS system, available to all planes.

Wish people would stop the crap about 'realistic'.

You want realistic, fine by me, but lets make ALL aspects realistic, not just a few select areas.

As soon as I see a post that contains 'realistic' in, it usually means "realistic" for what I want.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 10:29:51 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline MWL

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« Reply #157 on: November 22, 2006, 11:07:51 AM »
Realism - the Holy Grail of wargaming.

Is the 'dar' realistic?  I agree, no.  Would reducing the capability improve the playability of the game?  I would argue, no.

This is the art portion of developing a functional and fun wargame - balancing the science of the period with human interaction.

This game will never be totally realistic for example:
You get more than one life.
You suffer no injuries when you crash land a plane.
Pilot wounds are immediately healed.
Repairs take no time.
Vehicles are perfectly maintained.
Repair parts are always available.
Buildings and structures repair themselves in 45 minutes (or less!)

It would be easy to structure this game so that it is 'realistic' in every possible way, but then 99% of the population wouldn't make it through the 2 week period before they were dead or out of the game, forever, do to pilot injury.  The argument is how much realism you can incorporate and still have a game that is playable and interesting and people are willing to pay to play in sufficent numbers to keep money in the bank.  That is the balancing act.

Regards,

Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #158 on: November 22, 2006, 01:34:41 PM »
Submitted for your review.   map setup that might help.   this is just for illustration, bases might need to be closer or further apart.  The strats are capturable and control the zone bases.  When the strats are captured the related zone bases change hands.  (reverse of zone strat system)  (zones are white line, spawn points are red line)
Spawn points for vehicle hangers close to each of the strats and a couple of spawn points to a neighboring strat grid.  vehicle fights in the strat area like a mini tank town.
Adjust the down times to an hour or so for strat objects.   Strat has to be reduced to maybe 25% before it can be captured.   Bombers attack the strat targets.   Zone bases are damagable but cannot be captured.

Fighters can escort bombers and fighters can intercpet bomb flights

fighters can range ahead of bombers to intecept defenders before they reach bomb groups.

anyway just an idea I had related to some things i posted earlier and some other people have brought up.


Offline Lye-El

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« Reply #159 on: November 22, 2006, 02:46:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
OK for all those who advocated ack is now more 'realistic'.

 


Realistic or not I find it much more fun to defend against the would be vultchers now that one guy can't take out the acks and then Low level Lancs sweep in and take out the hangers.

I spend less time in the tower wondering how long before it comes back up and more time on the trigger.


i dont got enough perkies as it is and i like upen my lancs to kill 1 dang t 34 or wirble its fun droping 42 bombs

Offline E25280

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« Reply #160 on: November 22, 2006, 05:57:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
Slightly earlier warning would give some initial conflict or at least allow defenders some responce in the early stages which would generate the airborn conflict we all desire . . .
This still leaves the innappropriate effectiveness of the lone high alt heavy formation............... It would seem reasonable to me that some warning is given re formations and their altitude (or just high alt incursions) such that defenders can climb to intercept knowing that they will have some combat/fight when they get there and that it is before the bombs are released and not afterwards
2 possible solutions for this --
1.  A larger, "outer ring" to the radar circle where flying under the radar is set at 10,000 feet instead of 500.
2.  Increase the existing radar range with an increasing "below radar" altitude as distance from the field increases.

Both would give increased warning time that there are incoming boggies at altitude, without increasing warning time for lower flying aircraft.  The farther out you see the dot, the higher you know he is.  With my limited (read - non) knowledge of programming, I would think #1 would be easier to implement.

(This assumes, of course, that no one just wants the existing radar range extended, but that would be fine by me as well).
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #161 on: November 22, 2006, 07:51:00 PM »
i like that idea very much E25280. maybe copy it to wishlist forum or pm hitech with it....

2 radar circles per base... one 25miles that goes to 500agl
and one 40-50miles that only goes down to 10k agl.....fantastic. that way you KNOW if its high cons ib....yet it doesnt mess with the total radar range.
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #162 on: November 22, 2006, 07:52:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
Submitted for your review.   map setup that might help.   this is just for illustration, bases might need to be closer or further apart.  The strats are capturable and control the zone bases.  When the strats are captured the related zone bases change hands.  (reverse of zone strat system)  (zones are white line, spawn points are red line)
Spawn points for vehicle hangers close to each of the strats and a couple of spawn points to a neighboring strat grid.  vehicle fights in the strat area like a mini tank town.
Adjust the down times to an hour or so for strat objects.   Strat has to be reduced to maybe 25% before it can be captured.   Bombers attack the strat targets.   Zone bases are damagable but cannot be captured.

Fighters can escort bombers and fighters can intercpet bomb flights

fighters can range ahead of bombers to intecept defenders before they reach bomb groups.

anyway just an idea I had related to some things i posted earlier and some other people have brought up.



looks good, only issue would be the Vbase in the center of each zone..... you have put spawn points to the strat which would allow instant resupply of strat....hmmmm
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline MWL

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« Reply #163 on: November 22, 2006, 08:17:08 PM »
1. A larger, "outer ring" to the radar circle where flying under the radar is set at 10,000 feet instead of 500.

Brilliant!  :aok

Regards,

Offline NoBaddy

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« Reply #164 on: November 22, 2006, 10:57:34 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing radar set to 200' for the minimum. Make the dam sneak monkeys work for their 'nanas. :D
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