Tieing gears and tailhooks not a good idea

[Brooke]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
For us historical/realism nutters, the real maccoy is the deal.
 
I'm just surprised that HTC merged landing gear to the tailhook. To me, it's like merging the flaps to landing gear.

Here's how it is now, which is more realistic (at least for sure with regard to the F4U):  you must lower gear, then you must lower the hook.  What is changed isn't than the hook is automatic.  What has changed is that you can no longer lower the hook without lowering the gear first.  This is how it was in the F4U -- it is more realism, not less.

[sonic23]

Landing gear is overrated i never use it, whether im landing on a carrier,runway,ocean, or land. i foundt it easier and faster to just belly slide your plane on landing. if you want to rearm though i would hope you put your gear down.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Brooke
Here's how it is now, which is more realistic (at least for sure with regard to the F4U):  you must lower gear, then you must lower the hook.  What is changed isn't than the hook is automatic.  What has changed is that you can no longer lower the hook without lowering the gear first.  This is how it was in the F4U -- it is more realism, not less.

Are you sure about that? I ask because I just examined the hydraulic schematic for the F4U and noticed that the tail hook operates via a separate hydraulic cylinder, independent of the landing gear hydraulic circuit. I saw no limit switch or isolator/slide valve that would disable the tail hook when the gear were up. As far as I can tell from the schematic, the pilot could operate the tail hook by simply moving the tail hook control lever to the down position.

Does anyone have the Pilot's Manual handy?

My regards,

Widewing

[Rolex]

Originally posted by Brooke
Here's how it is now, which is more realistic (at least for sure with regard to the F4U):  you must lower gear, then you must lower the hook.  What is changed isn't than the hook is automatic.  What has changed is that you can no longer lower the hook without lowering the gear first.  This is how it was in the F4U -- it is more realism, not less.

Do you have a reference for this, Brooke? Not saying it isn't true, but it would certainly be unusual. Hook extension could have been tied to tailwheel extension or doors, but main gear would be unusual.

Added: Oops, sorry, Widewing. Must have been posting same time.

[Bronk]

Widewing I just looked in my copy of Whistling Death.

It has 2 labeled pics of the cpit layout. There is a separate switch for the hook that is on the opposite side from the gear switch.


Bronk

[Brooke]

I recently got the pilot's manual for the F4U and the training videos (from zenoswarbirdvideos.com).  They are very nifty!  Zeno's has the manual and training videos for most US WWII aircraft.  Here's the info from the manual:



I have no idea if arresting gear is operated this same way for other aircraft.  I might soon know for the F6F (thanks also to Zeno's).

[Mister Fork]

Interesting find Brooke.  It seems that part of the SOP is to have the gear down before lowering the hook.  Seems like then my complaint is a moot point.

But I'm curious if it's the same for other carrier aircraft...

[Brooke]

Another interesting thing from that page of the manual is that the F4U has auto-retracting flaps when airspeed gets too high for the current setting.  (Just noticed that passage.)

[Brooke]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
Interesting find Brooke.  It seems that part of the SOP is to have the gear down before lowering the hook.  Seems like then my complaint is a moot point.

But I'm curious if it's the same for other carrier aircraft...

Also from Zeno's, I should have the F6F, the TBM, and the SBD soon.  I'll check how their arresting gear works as well and post here.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Brooke
I recently got the pilot's manual for the F4U and the training videos (from zenoswarbirdvideos.com).  They are very nifty!  Zeno's has the manual and training videos for most US WWII aircraft.  Here's the info from the manual:



I have no idea if arresting gear is operated this same way for other aircraft.  I might soon know for the F6F (thanks also to Zeno's).

That explains why I couldn't find anything in the hydraulic schematic, it's a simple mechanical interlock.

Looking at the tail wheel design, I can see why they lock out the tail hook. If you over-ride the interlock, the tail hook cylinder will push the hook right through the tail wheel doors. Grumman used a "stinger" type hook than is extended, rather than was pushed down.

The F4U must have been the only USN aircraft of any vintage that tied tail hook position to gear position. Standard sequence has always been, "hook down, gear down, flaps down.

Thanks for looking up the answer.

My regards,

Widewing

[Waffle]

I like the zeno's stuff..always have received good quality from them.

There's also http://www.eflightmanuals.com
and http://www.rareaviation.com

Rare aviation has downloadable manuals and parts list. The only thing I would recommend is checking the size of the download before you buy it to make sure it's a good quality scan. I downloaded 4 things from them and one was at a kinda crappy resolution. I emailed them about it and never heard anything back about my inquiry on a remedy.


and on an off topic note - is anyone interested in trading manuals?

I've got several in digital format, but am always interested in sharing resources.

[Skull-1]

Some Naval Fighters had fixed tailwheels.   Others had independent hooks.   The point being is that not all airplanes require the gear to be down for the hook to be down.

I think it needs to go back to independent operation on airplanes that historically had that capability...

[Brooke]

I checked the pilot's manual for the F6F, TBM, and SBD.  On those (unlike the F4U), it does seem that the tail hook could be lowered before the gear, like Widewing talked about.  At least for those planes, when discussing the hook, the manual doesn't say anything about gear needing to be down first.

[Ball]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
ended up being a landing on the right wheel, then dropping onto the left wing, and cartwheeling off to the left side of the carrier. Weeeeee