Author Topic: Wow, Some Common Sense in the UK (Read 382 times)

Gunslinger · « **on:** November 18, 2006, 07:09:20 PM »

It's about freakin time somone realized and spoke out that banning certain things to avoid offending others in the name of tolerance is in fact intolerant.

Quote

Christian, Muslim Britons say leave Christmas alone By Paul Majendie
Mon Nov 13, 10:46 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - Christian and Muslim Britons joined forces on Monday to tell city officials to stop taking the Christianity out of Christmas, warning them that this fueled right-wing extremism.

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They attacked local authorities which used titles like "Winterval" for their Christmas celebrations and avoided using Christian symbols in case they offended minority groups, especially Muslims and Hindus.

The question of how best to integrate Muslims into European society, which has Christian roots but is increasingly secular, has become a burning issue, with Britain playing its part in the debate after years of promoting multiculturalism.

The Christian Muslim Forum, set up by Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, the spiritual head of the Church of England, complained that taking the Christian message out of Christmas played into the hands of right-wing extremists who then accused Muslims of undermining Britain's Christian culture.

"The desire to secularize religious festivals is in itself offensive to both our communities," said Dr Ataullah Siddiqui, vice chairman of the forum.

Anglican Bishop of Bolton David Gillett said that when local authorities rename Christmas so as not to offend other religions, their stance "will tend to backfire badly on the Muslim community in particular."

"We are concerned that those approaches which are based on anti-religious philosophies or a fear of religion are causing alienation in a wide variety of communities and fanning the growth of extremism," said Gillett, the forum chairman.

"Sadly it is they (Muslims) who get the blame for something they are not saying. And after all, the Koran speaks with honor about Jesus and tells of his birth to Mary, a virgin," he added.

The threat of radical Islam, rammed home by last year's London bombings, has led Britain to rethink its traditionally tolerant attitude to ethnic minorities.

The government has launched a debate on whether the policy of not imposing a single British identity on immigrants, and instead promoting multiculturalism, has led to the segregation of minority communities.

The London bombings in July last year prompted much soul-searching over what led four young Muslim Britons to become suicide bombers and kill 52 people.

Many experts fear the focus on Islam could backfire if Britain's 1.8 million Muslims feel they are under attack.

Religious controversies have often made frontpage news in British papers this year, including Muslim protests over cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, Pope Benedict's remarks about Islam and the debate over Muslim women wearing full veils.

Bishop Gillett said: "Following the many controversies through which my Muslim friends have gone this year ... I am particularly conscious of wanting to say to them in my Christmas cards and in person -- May the peace and blessing of God be with you this Christmas."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061113/wl_nm/religion_christmas_britain_dc_1

xrtoronto · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2006, 08:54:37 PM »

I'm a bit conflicted about this issue. I can see why some are in favour of making the holiday more secular; It would include allot of others who are not practicing Christianity to join in the festivities that we all know as Christmas. (also big plus for commerce)
Growing up in a big city one will meet time and time again people of every kind and it makes sense when you are not sure what to say, to say something like "Happy Holidays".
We should be able to use the phrase Merry Christmas when we like too.
For me this holiday has no religious signifigance; It's a time to acknowledge my family and friends. It's a time of peace. I am not offended when someone wishes me Merry Christmas; I'm also not offended when someone wishes me Happy Holidays.

I really don't understand what all the hub-bub is about.

Fishu · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2006, 09:12:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by xrtoronto
I'm a bit conflicted about this issue. I can see why some are in favour of making the holiday more secular; It would include allot of others who are not practicing Christianity to join in the festivities that we all know as Christmas. (also big plus for commerce)

Whew... does that mean we should have two christmas' in a year?

Wasn't orthodox christmas about 8 days apart of christian christmas?
I'm not sure what kind of christmas muslims have - I suppose they too do have some sort of a big celebration that does resemble christmas in a way. If something is common with every religion, it's the holidays; Every year there's lots of small ones and one or two big ones. With different dates though.

I'm not sure I'd like to participate in all of the combined holidays

Anyway, I've never experienced christmas as a religious celebration. I don't go to church and I always change a channel on TV when there's jesus yahoos. Yet, I do celebrate christmas. We lutherans don't bother ourselves with religion in general

sluggish · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2006, 09:19:26 PM »

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Originally posted by Fishu

Anyway, I've never experienced christmas as a religious celebration. I don't go to church and I always change a channel on TV when there's jesus yahoos. Yet, I do celebrate christmas. We lutherans don't bother ourselves with religion in general

That's interesting because here in the US Lutherans are some of the biggest fire and brimstone bible thumpers you can find.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2006, 09:25:16 PM »

Xtoronto,

to me the issue is about forcing one or another. Many non religious types celebrate christmas and idea of banning the word to avoid offending somone who is not offended to begin with is....offensive.

It's practicing tollerance to the point of being intolerant. To me common sense has prevailed here....it's a good thing

eagl · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2006, 10:12:06 PM »

I'd be happy to add Ramadan to my list of vacation days...

expat · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2006, 10:16:13 PM »

Eagl...
Good idea , a whole month off!!!!

john9001 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2006, 09:30:05 AM »

being a druid i celebrate the winter solstice

Ball · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2006, 09:33:06 AM »

Muslim taxi drivers around here get very much into the Christmas spirit charging 4 x on their fares.

lukster · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2006, 09:46:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by sluggish
That's interesting because here in the US Lutherans are some of the biggest fire and brimstone bible thumpers you can find.

Not from my experience. Lutherans appear to me to be low key, traditional, and not far removed from Catholicism.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2006, 10:07:31 AM »

lol furball, aint that the truth. they love new years eve also.

rogerdee · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2006, 10:51:22 AM »

well being a refuse collector its our duty at christmas to collect christmas tips to celebrate our hard work done for the dirty miserable buggers all year long.

now we have a lot of migrant workers who are not christian but the buggers still put there hand out to take a fiver.

christmas is christmas and untill england get rid of christanity they can go whistle.
we bend over backwards to make them happy and they dont give a crap about us.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2006, 06:35:41 PM »

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