Author Topic: Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord  (Read 1061 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« on: November 19, 2006, 03:50:35 PM »
From the revision notes:

Quote
Revised the 3D shapes of the F4U's. The F4U-1C was excluded from the revision as it will eventually be dropped as a separate plane when a perk ordnance system is developed.


Okay....some of us will panic, other will cheer, but really there is little to no info to go on for this.

Speculation part.  Assuming you will spend perks on an F4U-1A or F4F-4 to outfit it as a C-Hog with cannons, what other rides have varients that could come under this kind of system?

Fighter-side  I can think of a couple planes, mostly German and  Japanese side (Americans planes have pretty good lead now, so I'd put effort into other nation planes first, then move to U.S. stables).  I can't find any varients of the existing British, Russian, or Italian fighter or attack planes that would be an ordanance issue only.

The Ki-84 la had several varients such as:
* Ki-84 Ib (Mark Ib) -four cannons Ho-5 of 20 mm
* Ki-84 Ic (Mark Ic) -Version against Bombers, with two cannons Ho-5 of 20 mm and Ho-105 of 30 mm in wings

The Ta-152 C varient:
from Wiki."C-model was designed to operate at lower altitudes than the H-model, and had an even heavier armament consisting of one MK 108 30 mm cannon firing through the propeller hub, and four MG 151/20 20 mm cannons. Two of the 20 mm cannons were mounted above the engine (in the engine cowling), and the other two in the wing roots. The Ta 152 C could destroy even the heaviest enemy bombers with a short burst, but the added weight of the armament affected speed and turn rates negatively"

* Ki-61-II-KAIb with 4x 20 mm cannon, although I don't know if this varient had the reinforced wing to carry the bomb load that the Ki-61-I-KAIc could.

* A A6M5b upgrade to:  "A6M5c Model 52c «Hei»" with more armor plate on the cabin's windshield (5.5 cm) and in the pilot's seat. This version also possessed armament of three 13.2 millimeter guns (one in the cowling, and one in each wing with a rate of fire at 800 rpm), twin 20 millimeter Type 99-II guns and an additional fuel tank with a capacity of 367 liters, often replaced by a 250 kg bomb.

* Guessing gondola pods on german fighters become a perk cost.

* Would heavy ammo loads in Jugs and P38's and such become a perk cost?

------------------------------------------------
Bomber side

Since buffs may be considered more important in the taking of bases and towns now with newest revisions, I'm not sure how you can put a ord perk into effect with bombers.  I certainly can't see nerfing the existing bombers and buff drivers from the current situation, despite what some rabid make-everything-fightertown furballer may want to see.  
Buff driving now takes time, and low alt attacks are almost certain suicide against new flack positons, so even more time is needed for buff drivers to get to at least 10K AGL over targets.  Nerf the buffs, you'll see even fewer of them, and static WWI trench-line warfare in the arenas with little movement (which some tactically-only minded folks would like to see of course....they would not have to consider strategic parts of the game any more at all... and avoid their heads hurting....ouchie  ouchie  ouchie).

Do you bring out the huge mother Tallboy and Grand Slam Bombs?
Noted, bomb bay doors needed to be refitted, and these were carried by B1 Specials, but the differences between the BI and BIII were very slight, mostly engine installation proceedures at assembly.
21 foot (6.4 m) long 12,000 lb (5,448 kg) 'Tallboy' or 25.5 foot (7.77 m) long 22,000 lb (9,979 kg) "Grand Slam" "earthquake" bombs.
  :O    :O     :O
Could these even be modeled to produce the right effect in the arena, or would code limitations mean these would not be as effective as they were in real life?

Do you allow perk points spent on loading a bomber to it's maximum bomb load?

* Lancs in game carry Typical Load of 14,000 lb (6,400 kg) but had a  Maximum Load of 22,000 lb (10,000 kg).... the Grand Slam.  Here, bomb bay space limitations would be the biggest factor in loadout.

* B17's in the game carry a medium (for B17's)  bomb load of up to 6K pounds.  B17's could install aux fuel tanks which took up space in the bomb bay.  The most a B17 could carry was 8K pounds for an 800 miles round trip to 4,500 lbs on a 1,600 miles round trip.  Historical average was 4,000 to 5,000 pounds ord per planes, but the bomb bay space limitations often came to bear on this, especially with inboard aux tanks.

* B24's in game carry the typical maximum of 8,000 pounds, although B-24's have been know to carry up to 12,000 pounds at times, even over great distances when stripped of extra weight:
From Wiki:
Quote
In the China Burma India (CBI) theater, one RAF commander stripped his B-24’s of what he considered excess weight (including all centerline guns) and carried 8,000 lb bomb loads at night to Bangkok, a roundtrip of over 2,100 miles, and 12,000 lb to Rangoon, a roundtrip of over 1,400 miles.


Can bombers buy additional drones with perks as was once considered in the Wish List Forums?  Say, purchase up to 3 more drones flying behind the first formation?  Might be more difficult than it's worth, and drone gunnery would be pretty poor with 800 intersection point for whole flight, but might be worth spending perks on.

Buff drivers probably would like the ability to spend perks on maximum load outs at times, or tall-boy and grand slam bombs.  Although, another perk-worthy plane would be nice as well.  
A-26 Invader would be my choice.
:t
Or maybe an He-177?



What other thoughts to the "perk ordnance system is developed" do people here have?
 :huh
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 03:53:00 PM by tedrbr »

Offline Kev367th

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2006, 04:57:56 PM »
Couple I can think of -

4x20mm Spits (but not on the current Vb, wouldn't be worth the perk price, but bring back the old Vc, then yep)

Mossie with 57mm ship/Uboat killer.

12 x .303 Hurricane. (death by a gazillion cuts)

Give the XVI a .303 option it is then also a 1943 LF IX. (Probably change tag from XVI to LF IXe)

Wonder if they could extend the idea to different motors for the Spits and other aircraft-
i.e. Mk IX the choice of Merlin 61/66/70 etc, maybe even include wingtip options.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 05:04:57 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline SlapShot

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2006, 05:08:35 PM »
bring back the old Vc

I second, third, and fourth that motion !!!
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2006, 06:16:33 PM »
You guys might wanna check it out, But I remember reading something about an F6F with 20mm's in the wings. And some early versions of the P-38's had 2 .30's, 2 .50's, and 1 37mm.

Offline humble

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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2006, 06:39:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
You guys might wanna check it out, But I remember reading something about an F6F with 20mm's in the wings. And some early versions of the P-38's had 2 .30's, 2 .50's, and 1 37mm.


THe F6F-5 was factory engineered to accpet the 2x20mm, 4 x.50 load out. This wasnt a modified production run or a field mod....every single F6F-5 was capable of this load out. The F6F-5P (recon) and the F6F-5N (night fighter) both had this package as standard. The RN operated all its F6F-5's with this loadout.

The US navy did not operate any F6F's (except models above) with the 2 x 20mm loadout....but it literally could have been done in the field at any time by fleet armourers.....simply pop out the inbourd .50's and replace with 20mm. All fittings etc were already in place.

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Offline Squire

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 10:47:49 AM »
I dont beleive the RN ever operated the Hellcat II (F6F-5) with any 20mm. I have found no evidence of it so far. All the photos of Fleet Air Arm Hellcats in 1945 show 6 x 50s. I have also seen no references in print.

Most of the US F6F night fighters were armed with 6 50s, many did have the 20mm, but it actually wasnt a popular mount with the pilots. The reasons are many, firstly, it complicated servicing among the night fighter wings, that needed 20mm supplies, secondly, the pilots didnt like the mixed ballistics, and lastly, to shoot down a Japanese bomber at night was really just a question of finding it...you just didnt need 20mm to blast a G4M Betty or a Ki-49 from 200 yards with incindiary and tracer fire. They would go up like roman candles anyways, as would the B6N and other strike a/c they would catch, especially Kamikaze a/c loaded with fuel and explosives.

As to wether HTC ever gives the F6F the 20mm option, I wouldn't care a great deal either way.
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Offline SgtPappy

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 09:03:32 PM »
In addition to having the mentioned planes perked in terms of weapons, the Spitfires with C/E-type wings may have perked ordnance systems for additional bomb shackles and/or the C-type armament of 4x 20mm cannon. I can see many-a noob (such as myself =D) running for the fit, as, in a Spitfire, maneuverability isn't affected too much since those separated .303" MG's and their ammunition already were degrading maneuverability.

But it would be smarter to give only the Mk.IX and VIII those options since the other Spits are spammed (most notably the Spixteen) and giving them 4x 20mm would be quite annoying. Besides, there aren't many people who fly the Spit as an energy fighter anyway, so they'll just hand their tulips to you.

O and a SpitVc would be great... it should be fitted with a better Merlin... like the 47, I think it was, which gave it slightly better performance, a +16 boost instead of our current 12 and, IMO - the best advantage from the new motor - a clearer edge over those Zekes. A rear, 36 Imp. Gal. rear fuselage fuel tank would be fun too.
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Offline hubsonfire

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 09:34:38 PM »
I don't know if it could be included in a similar manner as the spits, but I'd love to have a hurri with rockets on it.
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Offline Kurt

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 11:39:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th

4x20mm Spits (but not on the current Vb, wouldn't be worth the perk price, but bring back the old Vc, then yep)


I'd be so happy I would weep!

most later spit (5 and beyond) wings had the capacity to carry 4x20mm... Few did..  Would be fun as an expensive perk.
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Offline Saxman

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 11:45:52 PM »
I can see that 152C becoming the HOtard ride of choice. Just what we need, ANOTHER plane with three cannon in the nose, including one tater. :p

Of course, the downside of the Grand Slam is that even if you bull's-eye a Tiger he'll STILL roll away without a scratch.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2006, 12:16:07 AM »
Ta152C is an entirely different design airplane - engine, wings and fuselage than the Ta152H. It would be another plane in AH and not just an ordenance option to the Ta152H.

Offline Grits

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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2006, 12:24:01 AM »
The P-38 was planned to use the 37mm gun but none ever actually had them.

Offline FrodeMk3

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2006, 12:24:52 AM »
Quote
Ta152C is an entirely different design airplane - engine, wings and fuselage than the Ta152H. It would be another plane in AH and not just an ordenance option to the Ta152H


The C would be kinda like a long-wing Dora, eh?

Offline SgtPappy

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2006, 06:53:59 PM »
Ta152C.. hmm never heard of that partcular variant... Do yo have any performance figures?

Hmm still thinking about that Spitfire Vc. They could give it 4x 20mm cannon, and/or a Merlin 46/47 for better performace (than those pesky A6M5's), but I don't think HTC will allow BOTH if the SpitVc is put into the game.

What do you people want? 4x 20mm cannon, or the improved Merlin (and/or the possibility of the additional rear-fuel tank)? I'm sorry I don't have performance figures, but I'm sure 'Spitfire Mark V Aces: 1941 - 45' by Alfred Price has the figures... I wish I had that book! Too bad it's super expensive...
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Offline Flayed1

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Baseless Speculation on Perked Ord
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2006, 08:58:10 AM »
IL-10!!!!   option of either two 37mm cannon and two 7.62's or four 23mm cannons,and a 20mm in the tail. :)  Top speed of 342 mph compaired to the IL-2's 258 mph....

 JU 87G of course with the 37mm's under the wings.

Would like to see the Ar 232 german transport and pay perks to fly an armed goon :D but this is an entirely new plane so a bit off topic
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