Author Topic: Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?  (Read 2052 times)

Offline Sixpence

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2006, 03:46:33 PM »
Yeah, now the repubs get to blame the dems for Iraq, the dems are gonna wish they lost
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline JB88

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2006, 03:50:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah, now the repubs get to blame the dems for Iraq, the dems are gonna wish they lost


how do you figure?

the admin created the problem.  it is still the administrations leadership which is neccessary to solve it.  

boy the republicans are really being a bit defeatist these days.

balance has been restored to the force, this is a good thing i think.

still, i wonder if the far righticons arent just mad that the divisive language isnt really working all that well anymore.

democrat or republican or other, we have ALL got alot of work to do and it is ALL of our responsibility to do so in the best interests of our nation.

geesh.  



:)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 04:01:24 PM by JB88 »
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline 1895

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #107 on: November 27, 2006, 04:00:44 PM »
To be honest. Go Home, ever since WW2 the US has pretty much almost always got involved in other countries civil wars... Leave em be, if they wanna kill emselfs let em. Or do you not have enough oil yet?

Offline tedrbr

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #108 on: November 27, 2006, 04:22:00 PM »
Go Big.  Will be seen in Iraq, and the region, as colonialism.  A new crusade.  It will again swell the numbers of insurgents.  Go Big is what they should have done at the very beginning.  Compare it to the British and American war leadership styles of WWII.  British tried to reduce casualties as a priority battle by battle (Monty).  American thought was to fight big to end the war faster as a way to reduce overall casualties (Patton and Ike).  We already missed our opportunity to Go Big and be successful at it.  

Go Long.  That's where we are now, and politicians will be loath to stretch the war out even longer due to voter response of last election.  More advisors and redeploying troops (within Iraq) to cover the borders (Jordan, Syria, Iran...) as well as some nodal points in the country where U.S. rapid response teams can deploy from to help Iraqi forces when called upon may be the best bet from a losing hand.  Try to stave off flow of foreign money, terrorists, supplies.  Still plenty of resources in Iraq to continue insurgency though.

Go Home.  Civil War.  Whole region brought into the fight as Sunni and *****es fight jihad.  Oil supplies disrupted.  Gallon of gas in the U.S. going for $6 a gallon... or more.   World crashes into economic depression.

We turned Afghanistan over to NATO, whose member nations restrict their forces use, and the Taliban and terrorsits grow stronger and more active.  We fail to chase down terrorists in Pakistan.  We fail to chase terrorists to Indonesia from Afghanistan.  We fail to seriously develop alternate fuel and energy to put the United States interests out of that region completely.


The Iraq War will be seen as an example of how to screw up by the numbers 30 years from now.   Win the war, lose the peace.

1. - Not enough troops at the beginning: we won the war, but lost the peace.  Unable to secure the ground from looters or enforce even martial law until a government could be stood up.  They tried to do it on the cheap, and touting high tech solutions.  Low tech war in urban environments requires boots on the ground.... lot's of them.

2. - Firing 400,000 Iraq military personel from the beginning.  That's 400,000 soldiers, sailors, and airmen that found themselves unemployed, trained to be professional thugs and bullies, and knew where most of the ordanace was buried.  Those that did not become insurgents or part of armed militias turned to organized crime all across the country stealing, raiding, extorting and kidnapping everywhere.  

Gen Patton would not have made this mistake in post WWII Germany.  MacArthur neither in Japan.  It took the U.S. State Department to mess this up, and the Generals should be fired for allowing to happen.  They certainly should know enough history to have made a better decision.
IMHO, the Biggest Blunder of the whole war.  Should have kept them on payrole, shuffled their leadership around, and locked them down on their bases until they could be retrained.

3. - Forcing democracy in that region totally ignores that region's history and ethnic realities.  They don't see themsleves as Iraqis... they are Kurds, Sunni, *****es, Turkomen.... their borders created by a shrinking British Empire.  Loyalty is to the Clan, their family, their religion..... all before they look at national loyalties.  That is the oldest of the old world there.  Some people there actually remember Alexander the Great fondly, and would like to see the return of such a ruler.  Strong one-man rule is the ideal.  The Byzantine Empire, the Ottoman Empire, modern day Saudi Arabia.  They look for kings and emperors..... not corrupt elected officials.

We'd have been better off installing a dynastic ruling family along side an parliment with a royal house and a elected common house.  Or a dictatorship.  Putting in a republic form a government similar to our own was vanity on our part.  It does not work well there with so many ethnic and religious tensions and power grabs.


Too many mistakes over too long a period of time.  There is no right answer now..... just varying degrees of failure and disaster to be courted.  Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory becoming a tradition in this country.

Offline lukster

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #109 on: November 27, 2006, 04:22:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah, now the repubs get to blame the dems for Iraq, the dems are gonna wish they lost


They really should have saved the Iraq card for '08. Would have been much more valuable then.


Guess they didn't want to risk it taking a turn for the better between now and then.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 04:30:12 PM by lukster »

storch

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #110 on: November 27, 2006, 08:49:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah, now the repubs get to blame the dems for Iraq, the dems are gonna wish they lost
take a brief look at the 1946 elections.  it's possibly the closest parallel to the 2006 elections.