Author Topic: Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?  (Read 2367 times)

Offline Mr No Name

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2006, 02:22:57 PM »
Going big sure took the urge to be mad out of Germany and Japan, didn't it?
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Offline john9001

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2006, 02:32:26 PM »
Should the USA have gone home instead of invading and occupying Europe/Asia in WW2?

Offline Mr No Name

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2006, 03:05:14 PM »
no way we should have never let the soviets put all of that territory under another dictatorship at the end of the war either
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Offline Silat

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2006, 05:31:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Ok.. we didn't catch him with nukes or biologicals...  The whole world thought he had em...

He threw the inspectors out of his country so...  what were we to assume?   Why would he not let the inspectors go where they wanted?  He was after all.. the guy who lost.   Part of losing was being inspected.  

You blue helmet loving impotent countries sent him nasty letters.   We said... you don't get to run the country anymore or sit on the gold toiletseat.

We let the people vote and form their own government.

What did we do wrong again?   Other than get involved with the UN.

lazs


Refresher:
RM: I think our citizens can be forgiven for being a little confused at this point. We have the Secretary of State, Mr. Colin Powell, saying to us in February 2001, “Saddam Hussein has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.” Condoleeza Rice, July 29, 2001: “We are able to keep his arms from him, his military forces have not been rebuilt.”

Then all of a sudden, we have weapons of mass destruction galore in Iraq. Shortly after 911, we have the president telling us, ‘There is no doubt that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.” We have Secretary Rumsfeld saying, in his typically quotable way, “There is no debate in the world as to whether that they have those weapons. We all know that. A trained ape knows that.” He even professed to know where they were, out there-- Tikrit, Baghdad, northeast, southwest of there. How do you explain that, Mr. Ritter? How do you explain first of all, that there were none there before 911, then all of a sudden there were a plethora of same. What was going on?

SR: First of all, let’s also refer to statements made by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld when justifying the analysis put forward that there were weapons of mass destruction. He acknowledged that the United States suffered from a lack of current intelligence data about the status of Iraq’s WMD program. That in fact the foundation of the analysis was based upon data that existed prior to 1998, that is data that existed when UN inspection teams, of which I was a part of, served in Iraq.

Now, this is the data that prompted Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice to make their statements in 2001 that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction. This is data that was known to the Clinton administration. Since 1995, the United States intelligence community knew that Iraq had been fundamentally disarmed in the field of ballistic missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons and biological weapons. What cause the Bush administration to change its stated assessment is the policy decision undertaken by the Bush administration to remove the regime of Saddam Hussein from power. Around this policy, the Bush administration fixed intelligence, including analysis that it claims was the result of a reexamination of the facts in light of the events of September 11, 2001-- namely that because of the terrorist attacks against the United States on that date, the United States could no longer tolerate an uncertain situation in Iraq. The reason why I highlight this is that the Bush administration in making these statements acknowledges the uncertainty that exists regarding WMD. This is a far cry from the statements made by the president and indeed members of his administration, under oath to the Congress of the United States, that they knew these weapons existed.
http://www.bushcommission.org/?q=node/30
+Silat
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Offline Silat

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2006, 05:39:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mr No Name
I say go big and long...  

You know... Iraq has become our own "Terrorist nutjob BugZapper"  It seems that every lunatic in the region cant resist the appeal to go there rapidly to die.  There have been many tens of thousands of them die there since 2003.  I just wonder how they keep getting in?  Maybe the border there is in as sad of a shape as our own southern border!

I say stay there and give 700,000 or 800,000 Islamofascists a chance to be killed, that's what they want and I feel we should not deprive them of this opportunity.


Im so confused. Not 2 months ago the reps were saying that the dems were full of it when they said "Iraq has become a haven for terrorist wannabees because of the Bush war".
Now I hear the righties/libertarians in here saying just that...
I just want to know what the cut & run Reps plan for victory is. The reps have asserted that the dems have no plan. Well I really want to know what their(reps) plan is. It appears they dont and never really had one. Oh yeah they did have that one plan where the Iraq people showered them with flowers and the war would last a few months.........
The Pres and the reps are still in charge so what is the plan?
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline john9001

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2006, 05:42:29 PM »
poor saddam, unjustly removed from his golden toilets by the evil boosh.

poor saddam will never again have the pleasure of gassing the Kurds or putting live Iraqis into a wood chipper or watching his idiot sons rape and kill Iraq women, oh the sadness.  :cry

Offline Viking

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2006, 01:45:16 AM »
Yes John, you've made their lives so much better. :rolleyes:


Fri Nov 24, 5:34 AM ET
BAGHDAD (AFP) - The Iraqi capital has been locked down by an indefinite curfew after more than 200 people were killed in a wave of bombings in a *****e slum, by far the deadliest attack since the war.

Iraqi *****es, many weeping, were collecting bodies of the victims of the bloodshed and heading to the southern shrine city of Najaf under police protection for mass burials.

A hospital source said the toll from four car bombs that tore through Baghdad's *****e bastion of Sadr City Thursday had risen to 202 dead and 256 wounded, adding that the toll was expected to rise as many of the wounded were in critical condition.

The bombings triggered fears of widespread *****e reprisals against Sunni Arabs as the two communites are engaged in a brutal sectarian conflict unleashed after an attack on a *****e shrine in February.

Offline Viking

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2006, 01:48:53 AM »
Skuzzy … if I were a *****e Muslim, I would take offence at having my religion edited by the profanity filter. ;)

Offline JB88

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2006, 01:57:40 AM »
what bothers me about nation building, more than anything is the fact that it is not a peoples choosing their own destiny it is another group altogether.

while i certainly sympathize (for lack of a better word) with the iraqi people for their suffering, i do not sympathize with their lack of action against the regime in the first place.  
our country was founded by an internal revolution...though we recieved assistance from france, it was by and large our own efforts which led to our independence.
worse, we went in without a global concensus which would have allowed for a far more productive dialouge rather than the lead weight of outcry that has existed since the first explosion of round 2.
americans are going to have to shift their paradigms if they want to solve this problem.  we need to actually CARE about these people rather than giving it lip service.  
i have yet to see anyone donate anything to the iraqi people other than a bloated allowance to the contractors (for doing a rather crummy job for the price IMHO) or the welfare that continues to flow into the far pockets of military contractors.
its a shame from start to end.
i say go long...but do so by reconsidering our method and asking not only the american people to act with honest charitably and real concern for a peoples
rather than pay lip service, but the world as well.  doing so first by example.  
if one american civilian is too many to lose to the war on terror than what makes an iraqi civilian any different?
everytime we blow it by focusing on the "war" we miss the point of it entirely.

it's time we either got out heads out of our selfish butts and start actually working for their sake, or get the hell out of their house and let them take care of the problem on their own.

my 2.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 02:01:25 AM by JB88 »
this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline lazs2

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2006, 08:34:15 AM »
so what you lefties are saying here is that muslims are not really humans with human wants... that they are bloodthirsty barbarians that can only be kept in line by having the most brutal dictators rule them with an iron fist under a reign of terror?

I guess we can be excussed for thinking that any human would embrace freedom tho eh?

Do you lefties really believe that there is no hope at all for middle eastern muslim countries and the people who live in them?

lazs

Offline Viking

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #85 on: November 27, 2006, 09:33:42 AM »
That bait is just way too stinky Lazs. You have to do better than that!

Offline john9001

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2006, 09:47:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
That bait is just way too stinky Lazs. You have to do better than that!


nice dodge on the question.

Offline Chairboy

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2006, 09:53:17 AM »
I'd like to suggest a different alternative:
Go capitalist: Tell the Iraqi government that US funding of the war will shortly end and that the US will begin withdrawing troops, but the US military will be available for hire at whatever level the new Iraq government feels is appropriate.  Make service in this voluntary and budget large pay increases into the quote so the soldiers are properly compensated and have a reason to stick around.  Sell munitions and rent the military equipment at appropriate rates so that the hemorhage of money stops.  There are a number of advantages.  The two top ones I see are:
1. The US government is no longer seen as the the guys in charge, which defangs much of the terrorist propaganda.
2. The Iraqi government suddenly has a pressing reason to expedite the training of their replacements: $$$$$
Because of these, stability would essentially be forced into place with a minimum of further losses.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Viking

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2006, 10:06:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
nice dodge on the question.


Dodge this.



Offline JB88

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Iraq War: Go Big, Go Long, or Go Home?
« Reply #89 on: November 27, 2006, 10:07:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
I'd like to suggest a different alternative:
Go capitalist: Tell the Iraqi government that US funding of the war will shortly end and that the US will begin withdrawing troops, but the US military will be available for hire at whatever level the new Iraq government feels is appropriate.  Make service in this voluntary and budget large pay increases into the quote so the soldiers are properly compensated and have a reason to stick around.  Sell munitions and rent the military equipment at appropriate rates so that the hemorhage of money stops.  There are a number of advantages.  The two top ones I see are:
1. The US government is no longer seen as the the guys in charge, which defangs much of the terrorist propaganda.
2. The Iraqi government suddenly has a pressing reason to expedite the training of their replacements: $$$$$
Because of these, stability would essentially be forced into place with a minimum of further losses.


hmmmmm....not such a bad idea.  we could even create our own foreign legion which might help solve the illegal immigration issue.


;)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 10:09:59 AM by JB88 »
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.