Author Topic: why spit14 is perked and not 16 (Read 3583 times)

Bronk · « **Reply #90 on:** December 27, 2006, 12:49:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think I want one of those, too. How many bottles of scotch is that?

LoL HT quoted me 200 .

Was trying to sell a kidney cuz that stuff in not cheap.

Bronk

BaldEagl · « **Reply #91 on:** December 27, 2006, 12:54:33 AM »

A couple of things:

The Spit Mk VIII came with a 1565 HP Merlin 61 or a 1710 HP Merlin 63. I'm assuming in game we have the Merlin 61 (Also used in the IX).

The Spit Mk XVI came with the Packard built 1372 HP Merlin 266

The extra HP in the VIII probably makes up for the extra fuel weight (I didn't bother to calculate to be sure).

The 2 .50's in the XVI are definitely more lethal than the 4 .303's in the VIII.

Performance-wise the VIII and XVI are nearly identical (speed, climb and turn although roll rates are probably better in the XVI).

Bronk · « **Reply #92 on:** December 27, 2006, 12:57:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
A couple of things:

The Spit Mk VIII came with a 1565 HP Merlin 61 or a 1710 HP Merlin 63. I'm assuming in game we have the Merlin 61 (Also used in the IX).

BZZZZZT we have the merlin 66 version.

Link>>>http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-VIII.html

Bronk

BaldEagl · « **Reply #93 on:** December 27, 2006, 01:06:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
BZZZZZT we have the merlin 66 version.

Hmm. How do we know that? Just wondering.

Bronk · « **Reply #94 on:** December 27, 2006, 01:10:08 AM »

Back when they were first introduced Pyro stated what engine each model used.

You'd have to do a bit of searching to find it but its there.

Why I remember is because I'm a spit dweeb and was asking bunch of questions in those threads.

Bronk

Edit: My bad Kev367th spoke with pyro about the spits at that time.
Kev relayed the info to us on the boards.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #95 on:** December 27, 2006, 02:33:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Yet another mark I've never heard anything about. Someone got a link for some pertinent info?

How far do you want to get buried on Spit XII info Hub? Them's my boys

Spent from 1980 on researching the XII and the two squadrons that flew them on Operations. I can go on for years with Spit XII info and stories

Posted before, but one of my favorite pictures of the Tangmere Spitfire XII Wing, taken October 30, 1943 not long after their big day where they downed 9 for no loss. Wing Commander Ray Harries in the center. Ray Harries German Shepard "Wing Commander Boris"is in front of the 91 Squadron guys. S/L Bernard Ingham of 41 to his right. S/L Norman Kynaston to his left from 91 Squadron. F/L Ian Matthew of 91 is on the prop. He later commanded 41 Squadron. F/L Pinky Glenn is 3rd from Harries right. He started as a Sgt. Pilot with 41 and ended up CO before he was done. Clive "Jumbo" Birbeck is on the far left. He lied about his age and was flying Spits at 16. Shot down and made POW in a Spit XVI while dive bombing sub pens. Next to Birbeck is Jacko Andrieux, a Free French pilot with 91. He ended up a General in the French AF post war. Next to Jacko is Herb Wagner, who only recently passed away. An American flying with the RAF. Shot down June 2, 1944 over Guernsey. Got roughed up by the Gestapo as they thought he might know of the invasion plans. For a while no one in the POW camp would go near him as they thought he was a German plant because he didn't have a British accent. Peter Cowell is next to Wagner. He shot down a 262 in a Spit XIV. On one trip on the deck back from France in a Spit XII he bounced off the water. Shattered a foot or more off each prop blade but somehow staggered back at full power.

I can go on and on with stories about those guys. Met a lot of them in the 80s. Sadly most are gone now

SuperDud · « **Reply #96 on:** December 27, 2006, 06:55:41 AM »

OMG!!! An intelligent conversation with no flaming:eek:

I'm not counting hub in the intelligent part.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #97 on:** December 27, 2006, 08:34:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
It would most likely be a bit more "twitchy" like the Mk XIV in game.

So you probably couldn't toss it around like a merlin powered spit.

Bronk

Not sure that's true Bronk. The guys who flew it, really liked it. Opposite torque like the other Griffons, and needed a bit more trimming for the torque but rolled well and turned just fine with the 109s and 190s.

Tactics were simple since it was geared for lower alts. Fly below the 109s and 190s, hoping they came down so the XIIs could turn into them and clobber em because they were better. It went against the grain of the guy with the alt controlling the fight.

They escorted the mediums often. Only problem came when the 109s and 190s quit coming down:)

The prototype Spit XII DP845 was Jeffery Quill's favorite Spit.

SlapShot · « **Reply #98 on:** December 27, 2006, 09:28:57 AM »

Tactics were simple since it was geared for lower alts. Fly below the 109s and 190s, hoping they came down so the XIIs could turn into them and clobber em because they were better. It went against the grain of the guy with the alt controlling the fight.

Sooooo ... these guys were the original "furballers" then ?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #99 on:** December 27, 2006, 09:39:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Tactics were simple since it was geared for lower alts. Fly below the 109s and 190s, hoping they came down so the XIIs could turn into them and clobber em because they were better. It went against the grain of the guy with the alt controlling the fight.

Sooooo ... these guys were the original "furballers" then ?

If that means dangling yourself out there hoping to get bounced.....then yes

Bronk · « **Reply #100 on:** December 27, 2006, 10:29:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Tactics were simple since it was geared for lower alts. Fly below the 109s and 190s, hoping they came down so the XIIs could turn into them and clobber em because they were better. It went against the grain of the guy with the alt controlling the fight.

Sooooo ... these guys were the original "furballers" then ?

Well it's official. Everyone can now blame the spit dweebs for the furball mentality.

Carry on.

Bronk

Bronk · « **Reply #101 on:** December 27, 2006, 10:40:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Not sure that's true Bronk. The guys who flew it, really liked it. Opposite torque like the other Griffons, and needed a bit more trimming for the torque but rolled well and turned just fine with the 109s and 190s.

Tactics were simple since it was geared for lower alts. Fly below the 109s and 190s, hoping they came down so the XIIs could turn into them and clobber em because they were better. It went against the grain of the guy with the alt controlling the fight.

They escorted the mediums often. Only problem came when the 109s and 190s quit coming down:)

The prototype Spit XII DP845 was Jeffery Quill's favorite Spit.

I was thinking in game Dan. Kinda like how the Mk XIV is at lower speeds.
If your not on top of it when slow she'll snap stall on ya quick.

I don't know if that was how real Mk XIV were. So I was was guessing from game experience.

Bronk

SgtPappy · « **Reply #102 on:** December 27, 2006, 02:01:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Not sure that's true Bronk. The guys who flew it, really liked it. Opposite torque like the other Griffons, and needed a bit more trimming for the torque but rolled well and turned just fine with the 109s and 190s.

Tactics were simple since it was geared for lower alts. Fly below the 109s and 190s, hoping they came down so the XIIs could turn into them and clobber em because they were better. It went against the grain of the guy with the alt controlling the fight.

They escorted the mediums often. Only problem came when the 109s and 190s quit coming down:)

The prototype Spit XII DP845 was Jeffery Quill's favorite Spit.

Hmm LET'S GET ONE! Do we have it on the wishlist?

Btw, Gupp, you wouldnt by any chance have the endurance and the range of the a/c (the XII with wing tanks) after warmup, take-off, climb etc. using different sized DT's? Thanks!

Guppy35 · « **Reply #103 on:** December 27, 2006, 04:50:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
Hmm LET'S GET ONE! Do we have it on the wishlist?

Btw, Gupp, you wouldnt by any chance have the endurance and the range of the a/c (the XII with wing tanks) after warmup, take-off, climb etc. using different sized DT's? Thanks!

Don't have specific figures. I have copies of a lot of logbooks from pilots of 41 and 91.

Longest flights are 2hours 10 minutes, flown in August 44. Terry Spencer of 41 squadron comments on the first one of these that 'its the longest Spit XII flight yet" when they escorted buffs to Rouen. I have photos of 90 gallon tanks on Spit XIIs so I imagine this was one of those.

Average escort flights in the summer and fall of 43 were 1 hour 40 minutes when they covered Bostons, Mitchells and Marauders on numerous raids into France.

As a comparison, Bruce Moffet's logbook when he was with 91 squadron shows them escorting Halifaxes and Lancs in August 44 after they gave up their XIVs for Spit FIXs. Those flights with 90 gallon tanks were 2 hours 40 minutes. Moffett flew XIIs with 41 and 91, then XIVs and IXs with 91.

The XII clearly burned fuel faster which is why flying with the 30 gallon tank was standard.

Hope that helps a bit.

91 Squadron Spitfire IX in August 44 with a 90 gallon tank.

41 Squadron Spitfire XII in August 1944 with a 90 gallon tank.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #104 on:** December 27, 2006, 05:20:21 PM »

Thanks, Guppy. That certainley clears things up.

Personally, I prefer a regular wing tip LF IX, but the XII is awesome.