Author Topic: Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??  (Read 2441 times)

-lazs-

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2000, 08:34:00 AM »
Ok, actually became a paying customer last night.   I have allways liked a brace of fifties and historicaly they were considered a devestating gunset.   I don't belive that they are represented well enough in AH.   Many sims are much worse but for the most part... This is cannon birds.  To be competitive you need to have a cannon plane.  If fifties were a bit more powerful then there would be no need but as you can see this is not the case.   A plane with 6 fifties should put out more lead per second than a Spit 9 with more API projectiles hitting those not modeled fatal ac parts.... I think everyone will agree that is not the case.

So... I not only say keep the 1C but I say add the Hellcat with the 2 20mm and 4 fifties option.   Add a cannon option to any plane that had em... Give everyone a chance at playing "cannon aces".
lazs

Offline RAM

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2000, 08:38:00 AM »
I agree...send it to hell or downgrade those turbolasers.

Offline Sharky

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2000, 08:53:00 AM »
I don't know that removing a plane would lead to such dire concequences.  These same guys (HT and Pyro) removed the cannon Hawg from WB when it really unbalanced the arena there.  To be honest I was really surprised to see it even introduced here after what happened in WB with it.

Having said that I don't really mind having it in the planes set.  One on one without a huge energy advantage, they're pretty easy to deal with.  I think the real problem is the gunnery model in the sim.

I'm sure that Pyro is correct when he says that the guns are as accurate as they possibly can be, however with perfect range data available at all times and the FOV feature (which I think is a great idea BTW) it is just too easy to kill at ranges beyond those experianced in RL.

Want to make the dweeb 1000yd gunnery go away? It's really simple to do.  Keep the icons just junk the range info.  People will then have no choice but to get up close and personnal before firing.

The cannon Hawg and other cannon planes will still be deadly, but you won't see any more of the 1000yd spray and pray.  Actually you probably will still see it, but it won't be anywhere near as effective as it is now.

Pryo once asked, "Do we want complete accuracy in the modeling of the gunnery, or do we want to model accuratly the historical result of the gunnery?  Well we have seen what complete accuracy in modeling the guns has done, maybe we should have gone with the historical result.  Personnally I would like to see all rounds just disappear after about 500 yds.

Accurate?  No.  Realistic in what you should expect for WWII airborne gunnery?  I think it would be better than what we currently have.

Sharky

Offline Hooligan

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2000, 08:54:00 AM »
Keep it.

Hooligan

Offline Trell

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2000, 08:54:00 AM »
Keep the plane  it has been here for months now  and i still dont see everybody flying it. yes the cannons make it deadly but all the cannons in the game are deadly. the plane has its advantages and disadvantages like everything else in the game


Trell

Offline Nashwan

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2000, 09:01:00 AM »
 
Quote
So... I not only say keep the 1C but I say add the Hellcat with the 2 20mm and 4 fifties option. Add a cannon option to any plane that had em... Give everyone a chance at playing "cannon aces".
lazs

Does that include adding the 4 cannon option to the Spit V and IX?

Offline Kieren

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2000, 09:29:00 AM »
I think it is a Hispano issue, not the f/m of the Hawg. Revisit the lethality issue.

...or...

What Joemud said.

Offline indian

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2000, 09:32:00 AM »
Remove the P51 first then the Spit then the FW then you can pick on the F4U-1C

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Offline Westy

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2000, 09:35:00 AM »


 I vote no.
 
    -Westy


Offline Koed

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2000, 09:35:00 AM »
Don't remove anything... the F4U1C is a dog to fly anyway.. instead we want more planes!
Gimme a jug and even I will whipe my bellybutton with the F4

Offline Vermillion

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2000, 09:37:00 AM »
StSanta I understand your sentiment   and it admirable.

But where does it stop? Personally I die many times over to Spitfires and N1K2's, than I ever do to F4U-1C's. And I bet (if removing planes became a "Voting" thing) that I could get quite a few votes from the populace to remove Spitfires. Yes there is that much hatred for Spitfires out there, but is that a reason to remove it from the game?

IMO, both are bad. We have too few planes as it is, and to me to actually "ban" one is tantamount to sacriledge.

Plus, the C and D should have very similar FM's. The x6 .50's plus their ammo are about the same weight as the x4 20mm and their ammo. If the FM's were significantly different, then we would know there is a problem.

Sharky, you know as well as I do that the F4U-4B and the F4U-1C are two entirely different beasts.   The -4B has the speed of a G10, much better climb, and hell of alot better acceleration. If these people don't like the -1C, they would absolutely crap their pants over a -4B.

And 1k gunnery? For all the talk on the BBS, I still havent' seen a single person produce film of them consistently getting kills at 1k. Occaisonal hits yes. Regular kills, not in my experience.

Nashwan, 4 Cannon Spit IX's? We already have them. They're called N1K2's   Seriously, they don't bother me. Spitfires that get into good firing solutions on me, kill me quite quickly as it is. Rarely do I come away "shot up" from a spitire. Their guns are quite lethal already. So sure, IMO bring them on.

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Offline Dingy

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2000, 09:38:00 AM »
Guys,

Lets think about whats been discussed here.  

Are we talking about removing a plane because something is amiss with the guns or are we talking about removing a plane because someone has had a few bad experiences in getting shot down by it?

The tone of the thread is bearing for the former and I think this is just plane (pun   ) wrong.  All of us have planes in which we have trouble against and if we all start calling for removal of said planes, we'd all be flying spits.

Personally, I havent found anything particularly UBER about the guns on the F4U-1C.  Sure theres alot of ammo and there are a couple aces out theres whos gunnery in the F4U is strictly superb but is this the plane's fault?  The guns on the F4U-1C are not any more deadly than those on the N1K1 other than the rate of fire and a SLIGHTLY faster round (I mean very slightly faster....I've flown both planes especially the Niki).  

The F4U is not an uberplane....its just flown by Uberpilots.

Keep it.

-Ding

Offline Koed

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2000, 09:41:00 AM »
Dingy should run for congress

Offline ra

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2000, 09:48:00 AM »
I don't think the -C should have been modeled, but since it's here it's sort of stupid to remove it.  After all, this is just a big main arena with people flying whatever they want.  If we ever get an historical arena, the -C won't be available much there.  Problem solved.

Of all the planes in AH, the -C is the only one which makes me say 'damn, I barely even pinged him' as I watch an enemy plane disintegrate.  Not even the Niki or the A8 are as lethal.  I'll leave it to the experts to discuss whether its guns are modeled well.

Lazs-- my favorite ride is a P-51D with 4x.50 cal, and I have no problems getting kills in it, even against buffs.  Cannons are not necessary but they do make the enemy go down  a lot faster.

ra


Offline RAM

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Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2000, 09:48:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by indian:
Remove the P51 first then the Spit then the FW then you can pick on the F4U-1C



Indian...the FW before F4U1-c?...Fw190 is beaten by F4U in ABSOLUTELY all performances:
1-Dives better
2-higher speed at all altitudes
3-better hi alt performance
4-better turner
5-combat flaps
6-one-ping-kill-cannons
7-better zoom
8-equal rollrate

I was once asked "how do you fight a F4U in a fw190?" I answered "improvise cuz the f4u is an all around better plane".
I used to think that F4U accelerated worse than Fw. After seeing Bee's post in Vehicle forum, I see I was wrong.

So, let the Fw in peacle plz.Thks