Dogfights

[Jackal1]

1. Who does the graphics?  

2. The latest-------> Wildcats------> HO---------HO. Was lmao.

[FBplmmr]

I  may start HOing zekeswith my cat...

[Dago]

I find it amusing that some are realizing that HOs were a fact of life during WW2, and some pilots (P38 pilots especially) found it to be a preferred tactic.

Playing Warbirds and AH, guys who lost HOs always whined about how nobody did them in real life.  Mostly they were just whiners and sore losers.

The graphics on the Dogfight shows are excellant.

[DREDIOCK]

Most HOs arent HOs but rather short angle deflection shots.

Often true HOs end with a collision.
which as the war progressed is why they were largely abandonded as a tactic.

they were the exeption. not the norm.
Just cause some pilots did something doesnt mean they all did.
And while it may have been a valid tactic. it wasnt a particularly wise one

In the game. even if it was a commonly (which it wasnt particularly as the war progressed) used tactic IRL

It does little to show off your skillz as a flyer
but..if your good at HOs you dont have to have other skillz.

But i imagine people HO in the game not because its a "valid tactic"
but  rather for the same reason people fly spits.

Its easy
And given a choice.

Most people will always take the easy way out.

HOing in the game is every bit the dweebery as toolshedding and only slightly less dweebish as milkruning

BTW just because somethign was said on the "History" Discovery, Learning" channels doesnt always make it true.

Ive seen them call P51bs, P51 Ds
And panzers, Tigers

does sound better though.

Funny side note.
Saw that episode and also the part where the guy went into a sideslip to try to cause the overshoot.

Not an hour later in the game someone tried that exact tactic against me.
I was chuckling at the thought he had just seen it too as I surgically removed portions of his plane before making it disintegrate alltogether

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Jackal1
1. Who does the graphics?  

2. The latest-------> Wildcats------> HO---------HO. Was lmao.

1. Mike Cliett...Lead Animator.

Goto the history channel website and they have a video of behind the scenes CGI animation.

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Video_Clips&content_type_id=51912&display_order=3&mini_id=51833

[Dago]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Most HOs arent HOs but rather short angle deflection shots.

Often true HOs end with a collision.
which as the war progressed is why they were largely abandonded as a tactic.

they were the exeption. not the norm.
Just cause some pilots did something doesnt mean they all did.

In the game. even if it was a commonly (which it wasnt particularly as the war progressed) used tactic IRL

It does little to show off your skillz as a flyer
but..if your good at HOs you dont have to have other skillz.

But i imagine people HO in the game not because its a "valid tactic"
but  rather for the same reason people fly spits.

Its easy
And given a choice.

Most people will always take the easy way out.

HOing in the game is every bit the dweebery as toolshedding and only slightly less dweebish as milkruning

BTW just because somethign was said on the "History" Discovery, Learning" channels doesnt always make it true.

Ive seen them call P51bs, P51 Ds
And panzers, Tigers

does sound better though.

Funny side note.
Saw that episode and also the part where the guy went into a sideslip to try to cause the overshoot.

Not an hour later in the game someone tried that exact tactic against me.
I was chuckling at the thought he had just seen it too as I sugrically removed portions of his plane before making it disintegrate alltogether

I find your comments very reflective of others playing online sims,  if someone doesn't play the way I think you should, or fly the plane you choose, they are a "dweeb".

Here is what I know to be true, I inadvertantly came upon a reunion of P38 pilots holding their reunion at a hotel I was staying in.  I wandered into their midst, and found myself welcome and entertained by some great old guys who were happy to have someone wanting to hear the stories and discuss the fights.  They were based in Italy and fought the Germans, and told me of fights with 109s and 190s.  

They told me that they preferred the HO in fighting the Germans, and all agreed.  They said with the centerline guns they had, they felt they had a distinct advantage over the German aircraft with wing mounted guns that had a predetermined convergance.  They felt they couldn't turn with the Germans, but they could slaughter them in HOs.

Now, I realize this doesn't fit in with your "Discovery channel" comment, but when I get it straight from the real life fighter pilots mouths, I will take their word over your opinions.  Nothing personal.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK

they were the exeption. not the norm.
Just cause some pilots did something doesnt mean they all did.
And while it may have been a valid tactic. it wasnt a particularly wise one

No offence Dred, but there are a good number of 80 year old veterans saying you don't know what you're talking about.

I've seen plenty of remarks that the germans were quite fond of the tactic, most especially when attacking bomber formations.

The 'Dogfights' episode they are referring two went into detail on two F4F pilots during Guadalcanal who both say that was a very workable tactic against the paper zeros.

'Duel of Eagles' a book about the RAF and the battle of Britain also details many accounts of head-on attacks being done not out of desperation, but because that is the method for some match-ups.

Its not like there are only a few pilots who did this.  There is plenty of documentation both in books and on video.  Denying it doesn't make it go away.  It is very similar to argument that vulching never happened... Which is also a misguided notion.  But we'll save that for another thread.

It does little to show off your skillz as a flyer
but..if your good at HOs you dont have to have other skillz.

Absolutely agree with you on this point.  People tend to HO in AH because its what they know how to do, and it is for that very reason that I rarely do it (unless boxed into a corner and outnumbered - then all bets are off).

same reason people fly spits.

There is nothing wrong with flying spitfires, they are outstanding aircraft in most respects without being 'uber'.  Dred, you've been around AH way too long for me to believe you are actually naive enough to think that it doesn't have a weakness.  Every plane can be countered, sounds like you just haven't worked out a method of dealing with spitfires.  That remark says more about you than it does about people who fly spitfires.

Funny side note.
Saw that episode and also the part where the guy went into a sideslip to try to cause the overshoot.

Not an hour later in the game someone tried that exact tactic against me.
I was chuckling at the thought he had just seen it too as I sugrically removed portions of his plane before making it disintegrate alltogether  

That is funny  Turns out the guy on T.V. didn't explain that its a dicey move and you better be sure the other pilot is going to goof.  I love when peeps try things in game just because someone on TV did it, and then the find out about E-management

[Viking]

Watched the F4F clip. Funny how they could be wrong about so many things.

[TheBug]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK

Ive seen them call P51bs, P51 Ds
And panzers, Tigers

???

Tigers are Panzers.  Panzerkampfwagen VI if you are referring to the Tiger I

[rpm]

I think one thing that makes the graphics stand out is the wobbly cam style of external view. It's not a locked view but shakes and buffets with the plane in flight. It really stood out in the WW1 episode with Rickenbacher. I'd have sworn that he was doing 500mph, had I not known better, the way that old kite was rattling thru the air.

The HO was definitely a tactic used. It worked then, it works today.

[fuzeman]

My two cents on Dogfights. I like the show but to me:
1) The tracers seem to go straight ahead with no convergence for wing mounted guns.
2) They show the pilots opening up for a long time. I'll admit I'm no expert on this  in real life but I thouoght they would have used shorter bursts of fire.
3) The dweeb in the commercial uses a gamepad.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Kurt
No offence Dred, but there are a good number of 80 year old veterans saying you don't know what you're talking about.

I've seen plenty of remarks that the germans were quite fond of the tactic, most especially when attacking bomber formations.

The 'Dogfights' episode they are referring two went into detail on two F4F pilots during Guadalcanal who both say that was a very workable tactic against the paper zeros.

'Duel of Eagles' a book about the RAF and the battle of Britain also details many accounts of head-on attacks being done not out of desperation, but because that is the method for some match-ups.

Its not like there are only a few pilots who did this.  There is plenty of documentation both in books and on video.  Denying it doesn't make it go away.  It is very similar to argument that vulching never happened... Which is also a misguided notion.  But we'll save that for another thread.



Absolutely agree with you on this point.  People tend to HO in AH because its what they know how to do, and it is for that very reason that I rarely do it (unless boxed into a corner and outnumbered - then all bets are off).



There is nothing wrong with flying spitfires, they are outstanding aircraft in most respects without being 'uber'.  Dred, you've been around AH way too long for me to believe you are actually naive enough to think that it doesn't have a weakness.  Every plane can be countered, sounds like you just haven't worked out a method of dealing with spitfires.  That remark says more about you than it does about people who fly spitfires.



That is funny  Turns out the guy on T.V. didn't explain that its a dicey move and you better be sure the other pilot is going to goof.  I love when peeps try things in game just because someone on TV did it, and then the find out about E-management

I agree with the HOing of bomber formations. But even then they are really more like short andgle deflection shots.

As for my comments about HO's in WWII I am goign by what I read.
Battle of britain yes. Again. early in the war.
from wht I've read HOs were common and actually taught early during the war but were later discouraged because of collisions.

that is what Ive read

As for spits. Yes. fine AC. No dissagreement there
also the easiest AC to fly in the game and be successful with

They do have weaknesses yes. But they do everythign well enoug to more then overcome most of those weaknesses
spit will make a decent pilot good, a good pilot great and a great pilot a super pilot.

They are the tricycle with training wheels

While I've had my fair share of problems against spits I also kill my fair share of them as well

Same can almost be said about the NIKI

I can tell you firist hand that after spending alot of time in 190s and 109fs
That when I occasionally switch to a Niki I almost feel like Im cheating its so easy.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK

I can tell you firist hand that after spending alot of time in 190s and 109fs
That when I occasionally switch to a Niki I almost feel like Im cheating its so easy.

Yup...

I spent about 2 months in the 190D exclusively a while back,  I'm normally a Spit9 pilot, when I came back to the spit, it was like an extension of my arm.  And thats why I love it.  I like the spit because I love the plane outside of AH, in fact I'm working on a radio controlled mk9 that will be dressed up to look like the spit9 skin I made for AH...  After that I'm doing a 190D... But I digress...

I was looking at your stats and I did see that the 16's are giving you a hard rub... I hate those damn planes.  I don't understand the attraction the 16, it doesn't have any of the grace of the 9 as far as turning performance.  I just don't get why anyone would fly the 16 when the 14 is out there with all the speed and twice the turn performance (well, not really 2x, but you know what I mean).  Pound for pound, however, I think the Mk9 is the best plane in AH.

I teach my squad in the spitfire because it is pretty easy to handle, when you don't have to worry about the plane, it's easier to teach the tactics and manuvers.  After my guys know the tactics I start encouraging them to master other aircraft.  The only well to be a consistantly great pilot is to know every one of the planes very well.  You can't exploit their weakness if you don't know what it is.

I try not to let any of my guys get too addicted to any particular aircraft.  Not only does it open you up to being called a 'dweeb', it gets boring too.

[storch]

Originally posted by Viking
Watched the F4F clip. Funny how they could be wrong about so many things.

indeed.  I see you like what I call you.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Kurt
I start encouraging them to master other aircraft.  The only well to be a consistantly great pilot is to know every one of the planes very well.  You can't exploit their weakness if you don't know what it is.

I made mention of this exactly last night in a post in the help and training forums.

16's do give me a hard time yea.

but as much as anything I probably get killed by them more often because they are among the most common plane I run into.
Usually 3 and 4 at a time LOL

could also be because its the only plane in the game Ive never flown at least once.
Not even offline