109s AGAIN

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by wrag
Sorry Bat but NO ....  I chased a P50 run for over 5 minutes OTD and could NOT catch it!  Couldn't close, couldn't reduce the distance between us.

AND you really think the f and g6 are uber???????????????????

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....... ....................  who you flyin against????

hehe probably a good point, but at the same time i have memories of fighting much better pilots treating my spit5 like a flying target when they get in a 109F. as for the rest of the 109s, i don't know about realism, but for this game they are totaly dominant in the right hands.


S! sir i respect a good opposing opinion, i just think it comes down to the fact that I don't bother chasing anything beyond 2.5 seperation,. I would prefer to go towards the other cons and risk getting picked off by the one im chasing than spend five minutes ragging my engine and fuel after some guy that just WILL NOT turn untill he has the space to climb 6000ft above you..

[killnu]

30mm?  when i was on my old system with a 15 inch monitor, I couldnt hit squat with it...now im on new system with 19 inch monitor...smacking stuff at a decent rate....my skills didnt change, but my system did.

just wondering what you flying on?  it may be a factor?


my old>Pent 4, 512 Sdram, Ti 4200 card

new>dual core athalon 64 4200,  2 gig DDR, Geforce 6600 (pro or ultra...something there)

monitors both LCD, just old one 15 in and new 19 in.

[wetrat]

30mm in AH requires a certain amount of natural ability, a whole hell of a lot of practice, and some luck. Dead 6 shots were always hardest for me. I don't know if things have changed since the summer, but the 109's were FAR superior to what we used to have after the flap deployment speed was raised. I was thoroughly beating the snot out of everything short of a hurricane fighting under 170mph.

I'd hazard a guess and say the problem is you, not the e-planes.

[wrag]

Originally posted by hitech
Nothing like CT "LUCK" has been added.

I thank you for your response Sir.

I am wondering if during the last 2 patch's an E retention problem occured?

Seen it before.  Some planes retain too much E and some planes don't retain enough after a patch.  Usually intails a patch to fix the patch LOL

If it is it's probably only enough to make a 10 mph difference?  And to hold the for maybe 1 to 2 seconds too long bleeding off E for each MPH?

[wrag]

Originally posted by killnu
30mm?  when i was on my old system with a 15 inch monitor, I couldnt hit squat with it...now im on new system with 19 inch monitor...smacking stuff at a decent rate....my skills didnt change, but my system did.

just wondering what you flying on?  it may be a factor?


my old>Pent 4, 512 Sdram, Ti 4200 card

new>dual core athalon 64 4200,  2 gig DDR, Geforce 6600 (pro or ultra...something there)

monitors both LCD, just old one 15 in and new 19 in.

AMD Dual core 64 4200+

2 gig DDR system memory

ATI x1600 vid card with 512 mem

Win XP

Monitor is a 19 each Samsung CRT

[killnu]

hmm  guess that not it...hehe.

[Noir]

the secret for dead 6 shots is setting the convergence to 200....try it, it works with wing cannons also (like the spit)

[Widewing]

Here's some indisputable facts about the AH2 P-51D and Bf 109K-4. These have been exhaustively tested and retested... There's no doubt about the figures.

Max speed at sea level, 25% fuel, full magazines.

P-51D: 367 mph
109K-4: 368 mph

Now, let's look at variations in load out. You are flying fully armed 109K-4 with about 50% of internal fuel remaining. You run into a P-51D with 25% fuel and only 1/3 of his ammo remaining. He elects to avoid an engagement. He dives for the deck with you chasing. You both level off at abut 50 feet doing around 450 mph.

You will never catch him until he runs out of WEP.

Why? Simple really, a P-51D with 25% gas and 1/3 ammo can maintain 368 mph, and with a little less gas or ammo and it'll do 369 mph. Reducing weight reduces induced drag, reducing induced drag increases speed.

Another factor: The P-51D retains speed better than the 109K-4. Again, this has been tested and verified. Due to its greater mass and lower total drag, the P-51D will bleed down from 450 mph to 368 mph considerably slower than the lighter, draggier 109K-4. What this means is that in between 450 mph and 368 mph, the Mustang will actually be pulling away from the 109 because the 109 is bleeding off speed faster.

In sum, you will have to chase the Mustang long enough to run it out of WEP. Even then, it will take about 45 second for the P-51D to bleed down to its 355 to 356 mph MIL power speed. So after nearly 6 minutes of chase, you have a 12 mph advantage. However, more time is needed to close to gun range. That could take a few minutes more. Meanwhile, the Mustang's WEP is recharging. So, after 9 or 10 minutes of chasing the P-51, you are probably looking at a low fuel condition and if you have exhausted your WEP, the Mustang will walk away yet again.

Keep all of the above in mind when chasing P-51s. If you're not closing on them at a significant rate, don't waste your time. Instead, go find a target that isn't so fast.

My regards,

Widewing

[SkyRock]

Me and Saww dove on a pony, I was in an F4U-1 and Saww was in a 109-k4.  As we leveled out on the water, I was amazed to find I was catching Saww and the pony.  I never overcame saww tho as I was just underneath him when it all seemed to just stand still.  We both did close within 600 of the pony from an initial 800 merge and I was llighting him up and unbelievably, Saww popped a tater out there to 600 and tore him in half!  Only 2 to 3 minutes of chase and I completely stayed with them though!

[killnu]

Me and Saww dove on a pony...etc

ganger

[Widewing]

I forgot to post the test data relating to what I was speaking about above.

Fuel load 25%, zero fuel burn. Full magazines. Time to bleed speed from 450 TAS  down to 368 mph TAS at 50 feet ASL. Time recorded in Minutes:Seconds.tenths of seconds.

P-51D: 3:25.85
109K-4: 2:20.10

When the 109K-4 has slowed to its max sustainable speed, the P-51D is still doing 376 mph...Pulling away. After 3 minutes, 25 seconds speeds are equalized, but the gap is considerably wider and will not even begin to close for another 65 seconds.

Skyrock, the F4U-1A is just about as fast on the deck as the P-51 at 366 mph with full ammo and 25% gas. But if you shoot out just 20% of your ammo it'll do 367 mph. Shoot out more than 50% and it's a dead heat with the 109K-4 (also 25 % gas) at 368 mph. If the 109 is fuel heavy, your F4U-1A may actually pull away. The new Hog is plenty fast down low. It will max out between 417 and 420 mph at 20,000 feet, depending upon weight of gas and ammo. 419 mph with 25% fuel and 100% ammo @ 20k. Fast enough to play with the speed demons in the Late War Arenas, all of which it will turn circles around if the fight gets slow. It's a very able fighter.

My regards,

Widewing

[wrag]

Originally posted by Widewing
Here's some indisputable facts about the AH2 P-51D and Bf 109K-4. These have been exhaustively tested and retested... There's no doubt about the figures.

Max speed at sea level, 25% fuel, full magazines.

P-51D: 367 mph
109K-4: 368 mph

Now, let's look at variations in load out. You are flying fully armed 109K-4 with about 50% of internal fuel remaining. You run into a P-51D with 25% fuel and only 1/3 of his ammo remaining. He elects to avoid an engagement. He dives for the deck with you chasing. You both level off at abut 50 feet doing around 450 mph.

You will never catch him until he runs out of WEP.

Why? Simple really, a P-51D with 25% gas and 1/3 ammo can maintain 368 mph, and with a little less gas or ammo and it'll do 369 mph. Reducing weight reduces induced drag, reducing induced drag increases speed.

Another factor: The P-51D retains speed better than the 109K-4. Again, this has been tested and verified. Due to its greater mass and lower total drag, the P-51D will bleed down from 450 mph to 368 mph considerably slower than the lighter, draggier 109K-4. What this means is that in between 450 mph and 368 mph, the Mustang will actually be pulling away from the 109 because the 109 is bleeding off speed faster.

In sum, you will have to chase the Mustang long enough to run it out of WEP. Even then, it will take about 45 second for the P-51D to bleed down to its 355 to 356 mph MIL power speed. So after nearly 6 minutes of chase, you have a 12 mph advantage. However, more time is needed to close to gun range. That could take a few minutes more. Meanwhile, the Mustang's WEP is recharging. So, after 9 or 10 minutes of chasing the P-51, you are probably looking at a low fuel condition and if you have exhausted your WEP, the Mustang will walk away yet again.

Keep all of the above in mind when chasing P-51s. If you're not closing on them at a significant rate, don't waste your time. Instead, go find a target that isn't so fast.

My regards,

Widewing

I started co-alt and co-e with the pony.

Pony dove and I dove.  Chased the pony for better then a sector from one base all the way to his base OTD.

Only time I actually closed was when the pony climbed.  Which only happened once.  I was on wep the whole time. I still had wep when I broke off due to field ack.

I've run down MANY ponys with a 109k4!  Only time i've ever had problems like I did in this case AH got patched for too much E retention in some planes!

[Widewing]

Originally posted by wrag
I started co-alt and co-e with the pony.

Pony dove and I dove.  Chased the pony for better then a sector from one base all the way to his base OTD.

Only time I actually closed was when the pony climbed.  Which only happened once.  I was on wep the whole time. I still had wep when I broke off due to field ack.

I've run down MANY ponys with a 109k4!  Only time i've ever had problems like I did in this case AH got patched for too much E retention in some planes!

Running down a P-51 with a 109K-4 isn't difficult if you have a speed advantage from the outset. If you don't, you won't...

E retention is a function of physics. The heavier aircraft has greater potential energy. If that aircraft also has less total drag, it will retain E even better. Keeping those facts in mind, the P-51 weighs a ton more than the 109k and its total drag is less than that of the 109K. Therefore, the Mustang WILL ALWAYS retain E better than the 109K. Even if the drag model is tweeked here and there, it does not remove that ton of mass.

My testing of the P-51 and 109K show that E retention of these two is very much what it should be. There are some planes that on the surface appear to have issues with too much or too little E retention. Neither the P-51 or the 109K-4 are those in question. Hitech has been discussing this with us in this thread. You will have to go to page 2 to find the specific posts.

My regards,

Widewing

[Guppy35]

Took up a G6 tonite just to see what the fuss was about.  Had two 1 v 1 fights.  First against a Ki-84, second against an LA7.  Both tried to use the vertical and the stall buzzer was on for me the entire fight.  Got inside the turns of the Ki-84 and the La, killed em both.

Was kind of a fun little beast.  Still partial to the Emil though

[Jager]

The 109's need to be fixed