Author Topic: Testing Capture system in LW orange today (Read 37942 times)

Kazaa · « **Reply #150 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:09:03 AM »

See Rules #4, #7

Donzo · « **Reply #151 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:12:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bj229r
I like it. People and been whining about the same maps over and over-- this gives an opportunity to use the large maps, while pretty-much forcing people to congregate in a very few areas (if they wanna take bases) Also ends the mega-squad-noe-capture-the-empty-bases-missions.

1) What's the purpose of having a large map if all the action is being forced in small areas?

2) What's your problem with the NOE captures? And why do you find the need to throw in the "mega-squad" reference?

scottydawg · « **Reply #152 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:16:16 AM »

So, does this make taking out strat objects to affect 'pop' times more or less important? Seems to me it would make them more important. What do you think?

thndregg · « **Reply #153 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:21:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bj229r
forcing people to congregate in a very few areas

SLUM.

Flayed1 · « **Reply #154 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:32:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by scottydawg
So, does this make taking out strat objects to affect 'pop' times more or less important? Seems to me it would make them more important. What do you think?

Important ro hit yes but BORING AS HE11 to hit... If you go back and read my earlier post it will explane. Then again maybe they are not so important if you follow the rook example last night you just get a crap load of bombers, blast base take base and repeat. WOOOO FUN...

EDIT: another thought for a possible modification to the system... How about having a base here and there along the line that could be capturable at any time. Then you can capture on up or down the line. Same as now but would allow for the opening of some other fronts and maybe people would keep an eye out for those sneaky takes. Also might help with the boring factory runs, while they keep an eye out for the sneak on those few other bases they might see those fat bombers flying in to hit the strat.

Overlag · « **Reply #155 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:43:50 AM »

maybe if strat targets had damage more bases should be captureable.

ie
100% up only 2 bases
80% up 4 bases
60% up 6 bases

etc

and it needs to be tweaked by numbers. If there is 80 people per side, then more than 4 bases should be captureable. If theres only 20 per side then yes, 2 bases is fine.

still hate the idea though, because i we havnt been told what its trying to solve. I cant remember any issues with what we had.

the 1st change was put in to get rid of the "slum" and hordes etc.

the 2nd change was put in because the players kept "slumming" in the LW arena (because they wanted to and found it fun)

and the 3rd change brings us straight back into hordeing and "griefers". because us "griefers" are going to have to take out hangers...and since its the only base people are flying at the furballers are going to go nuts.

DaPup · « **Reply #156 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:45:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by thndregg
That's the sole nature of ANY game. If it's not there, you neither win or lose. Is that what some want HTC to make the MA's into?

<---------ducks!:noid

I know it's early and I've only had one cup of coffee but what exactly was your point?

Overlag · « **Reply #157 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:47:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DaPup
I know it's early and I've only had one cup of coffee but what exactly was your point?

without any "winning" what is the point?

anyone notice that last night was probably the lowest numbers ive ever seen since the split?

BaldEagl · « **Reply #158 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:53:33 AM »

OK, I didn't have time to read everyone elses posts but I logged onto this map last night and we had 3 bases that were capturable. One on the front line of each enemy country and one deep in one of the other backfields. Almost everyone was flying among six bases with a few, what I can only assume to be milk-runners, attacking bases far from those that were capturable. Those milk-runners were facing no opposition because there was no reason to defend what could'nt be taken.

I wanted the big maps back more than anyone, but mostly to avoid furballs and be able to find nice one-on-ones. If this is the implementation that we get then forget the big maps and stick to the small ones. In fact, if this is the implementation you could make your lives a lot easier at HiTech by just making all maps 3 bases.

Flayed1 · « **Reply #159 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:55:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Overlag
maybe if strat targets had damage more bases should be captureable.

ie
100% up only 2 bases
80% up 4 bases
60% up 6 bases

etc

and it needs to be tweaked by numbers. If there is 80 people per side, then more than 4 bases should be captureable. If theres only 20 per side then yes, 2 bases is fine.

still hate the idea though, because i we havnt been told what its trying to solve. I cant remember any issues with what we had.

the 1st change was put in to get rid of the "slum" and hordes etc.

the 2nd change was put in because the players kept "slumming" in the LW arena (because they wanted to and found it fun)

and the 3rd change brings us straight back into hordeing and "griefers". because us "griefers" are going to have to take out hangers...and since its the only base people are flying at the furballers are going to go nuts.

Interesting idea...

HT said he was trying this so that we could use the large maps with the small # of people that we now have in the arenas. I think that was almost exactly what he said in Orange yesterday morning.

Edbert · « **Reply #160 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:59:01 AM »

Sigh...what we have here is failure to communicate.

1.) The problem was never the fact that hordes existed, it was the fact that they tended to appear at places where the defenders were not. While I admit there are elements of military strategerie in that, for the AH-MA it became commonplace that if defenders began upping there, the horde moved to another undefended base, if defenders went there the horde moved yet again. The fact that so many players wanted to blow up sheds and take bases for their perkies without opposition is what needed to be addressed, and from this thread we can clearly see who many of them are.

2.) If folks are carrying eggs and hitting targets; or the fight is over a base; or guys are coming in at 20K; or their are multiple waves of buffs...it is by definition NOT a furball, it is a fight for a field. A "real" furball takes place in no-man's land between guys who only want A2A action

3.) Base capture is possible without destroying the FHs, or porking all nearby bases. There was a time when FHs were not destroyable at all. Think teamwork and scalpel vesus scorepadding and sledgehammer.

4.) The "point" is the fight, not the win. I'd rather have a good and fair fight and be "killed" than get a kill of a guy that cannot defend himself.

Dastrdly · « **Reply #161 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:00:55 AM »

OMG this is crazy

furrballs & nothing but? thats all that this has accomplished! its not working... atleast not for me!

hitech whould large maps be more formadable with new ack alone?

this cant work! open more bases for capture or something, no NOEs or any other covert missions this way!

sorry for threat but i will quit before i fly this way!

Zazen13 · « **Reply #162 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:01:28 AM »

Why didn't Hitler 'capture' Great Britain? He failed to achieve local air superiority...Achieving local air superiority over a contested region is now and has always been the first and foremost purpose of air power in warfare, real or imaginary. With maps with more fields than people the natural human compulsion to take the path of least resistance compelled folks to assure they had and could maintain local air superiority by attacking un-defended targets, of which there was a guarenteed abundance.

In my opinion, articificially focussing fights into specific areas is a unique and interesting way to counter-act the human compulsion to avoid conflict when a path of least resistance exists. So, now we can have an Epic sized map, but have the concentration of force previously only possible on the small un-Epic maps that would typically get reset within 24 hrs. By removing the reset carrot as a nightly achievement the fair weather flyers and the band-wagonners will see the futility and pointlessness of huddling into the country with the best chance to perform the reset.

Now, captures and ultimately resets will be based on achieving a logical sequence of periods, sufficient to capture a base, of local air superiority in the face of heavy resistance. What that means in a nutshell is a sequence of FIGHTS. Those that don't play for air to air combat will undoubtedly be shattered, but those of us who do will be in hog heaven. I don't believe that this game was meant to be a 'Build an Empire' game, it is first and foremost an air combat game. Anything that promotes air combat over conflict-free empire building via milkrunning is a good thing IMHO...

Zazen

Overlag · « **Reply #163 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:07:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert
Sigh...what we have here is failure to communicate.

1.) The problem was never the fact that hordes existed, it was the fact that they tended to appear at places where the defenders were not. While I admit there are elements of military strategerie in that, for the AH-MA it became commonplace that if defenders began upping there, the horde moved to another undefended base, if defenders went there the horde moved yet again. The fact that so many players wanted to blow up sheds and take bases for their perkies without opposition is what needed to be addressed, and from this thread we can clearly see who many of them are.

So? the fights move around the maps. If the attackers can change targets, then the defenders can to.

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert

2.) If folks are carrying eggs and hitting targets; or the fight is over a base; or guys are coming in at 20K; or their are multiple waves of buffs...it is by definition NOT a furball, it is a fight for a field. A "real" furball takes place in no-man's land between guys who only want A2A action

yes...... so there are no furballs now? since the only active bases are the ones that can be captured???

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert

3.) Base capture is possible without destroying the FHs, or porking all nearby bases. There was a time when FHs were not destroyable at all. Think teamwork and scalpel vesus scorepadding and sledgehammer.

Well you would need vulchers then.

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert

4.) The "point" is the fight, not the win. I'd rather have a good and fair fight and be "killed" than get a kill of a guy that cannot defend himself.

all games the point is to win and have fun. Some see like winning on the small scale of shooting 2 planes down... good for them. they had fun. Some see winning as beating a whole country to reset.

i came here 2002 for a war game, im starting to think this is not what HTC wants anymore, so im starting to think i need to look at WWIIOL, which has absolutely no aircombat which i would miss greatly..... but at least it has a war going on.

Mystic2 · « **Reply #164 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:18:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by tactic
Milk runners, so what? grabbing a base while no one is looking, so what? blah blah! Why cry about people doing it, does it effect you that much? There is Way Too many Generals. Some people just cant stand it when, others are not on the same agenda as them. "the ol, "if you aint thinking like me, you aint thinking right". boyeeeeee

As we stand back and look at the situation, we all see it in different light and thats fine, thats life. But, if it was a real "tryout" type thing then see what people really want.

Leave it like it is, but make ONE ARENA "RED" like the Old MA 5-6- 700+ players and no base capture bs, have the dweeb planes and all, See where the numbers go, if they end up in the orange or blue or EW or MW well then the old ma system was at least givin a chance.

And if it did show that the people want the "limited number" arena and new base capture system, I would never say another word about this ever ever again.

Id be like a robot,,, yes master, i will play AH like you want me too.. beep! I will not B&Z , i will not HO, i will not extend more then 3 times, i will not vulch, i will not fly any dweeb planes, i will not milkrun, i will not attack a undefended base, i will not bug out when bingo ammo must get shot down to go to tower, i will bail if a collision is probable, if im on someones 6 i will broadcast on chan 200 to make sure its ok with them if i shoot them down just incase they are bingo ammo or have kills to land or just dont want to die. I will do more "control" programing later because im sure i missed something.

well thats all folks,,,,, for now . have a nice day be nice!

very well put