Author Topic: Swearing in to congress  (Read 983 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Swearing in to congress
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2006, 02:34:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Congress traditionally swears in its new members on a bible, but this year there's something new: A muslim has been elected, and would like to personally swear in on a Quran.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1153AP_Ellison_Quran.html

Some folks in congress are upset about this, saying he should swear in on "this nation's bible".  


Ok
I know I have written quite a bit here on the "seperration clause"

This. And this quote in particular made by whatever congressperson is wrong.

While there is no "Seperation of church and State"
the Clause is in place so that we do NOT have an official national religeon
Such as "The Church of the USA"
Thus there is no "Nations Bible"
No official Bible of the USA.

Because of that. and  because there is no true clause keeping religion..any religeon out of the government.
He should be completely free to swear in on the Bible,Tanakh,Quran,Or for that matter the Satanic verses.
If that were to be the case.
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storch

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2006, 02:49:54 PM »
it's not an issue

Offline lasersailor184

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2006, 02:50:24 PM »
And dred nails it.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2006, 03:00:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAF51
WTF, it's not like any of them actually follow the Bible, besides swearing on a Bible is technically wrong, "Seperation of Church and state."  It's just a book!



There is NO place in the Consitution that makes the statement "Seperation of Church and State"

Nor was your understanding of the clause its technical intent.

If it was. Why would one of the first things Congress did after the Constitution was written was hire a Chaplin?
Why would there heve been prayer prior to congress being in session for the last 200+ years. A Tradition that continues to this day.

I could go on ut I have been over this before
There are all sorts of things that point to the "Seperation Clause" (which is really called "the establishment clause" Not being intented as it is interpeted today.

And before someone gets going on Jefferson being an Athiest.
Turns out he wasnt. Not in the way he is commonly thought to have been.

Seems what he really was. Was much like the rest of us today.
A Flip Flopper on the issue.
Sometimes religeous Sometimes not

.

Constitutionally you cant bar the people in Government from religeon anyway without infringing on their rights whichever religeon it may be.
such as "The Church of Englad"

In any event. The idea wasnt to exclude all religeon from government.
Only to prevent the government from forming of one specific official national religeon.

For that reason all religeons are safe. Even in Government.
For that reaon. You can have a Christian,Jew. Muslam, or devil worshiper for that matter in government. swear in on whatever book he chooses. or none at all if that is chosen.

And even though that person is in office, any office. They cannot form say "The American Church of Islam" and make it the official religeon
As that would violate the Establishment clause which bars the government from
 "Forming an establishment
       of religeon"
« Last Edit: December 02, 2006, 03:18:04 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline Black Sheep

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2006, 03:11:19 PM »
It is symbolic - and it is an issue - we are not a Muslim state. We were not founded as such - Too many here write it off as a non issue - probably the same ones that say to hell with everyone else cause it's all about ME.


All I'm sayin is separation of church and state is fine - as long as the values of the majority are still descendant of the ideals and beliefs that created this country in the first place. Some may not believe in them, but we wouldn't be enjoying the freedoms we have today without em.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2006, 03:21:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Black Sheep
It is symbolic - and it is an issue - we are not a Muslim state. We were not founded as such - Too many here write it off as a non issue - probably the same ones that say to hell with everyone else cause it's all about ME.


All I'm sayin is separation of church and state is fine - as long as the values of the majority are still descendant of the ideals and beliefs that created this country in the first place. Some may not believe in them, but we wouldn't be enjoying the freedoms we have today without em.


We arent a Catholic, Protestant, Prespeterian, Presbyterian, Methodist or Jewish  state either
We are all of the above. And then some

We are an inclusive nation.
Not an exclusive one
« Last Edit: December 02, 2006, 03:24:54 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline VOR

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2006, 03:33:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Black Sheep
It is symbolic - and it is an issue - we are not a Muslim state. We were not founded as such - Too many here write it off as a non issue - probably the same ones that say to hell with everyone else cause it's all about ME.


Should he not be permitted to do it? I don't care which superstition he subscribes to as long as he isn't cutting the heads off of chickens in session.

I can't be bothered to look it up, but what kind of an issue was his religion during his run?

Quote
Thread idea: Let's discuss the issue instead of me if ye can.


Feeling persecuted, Chairboy? ;)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2006, 03:42:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
I don't care which superstition he subscribes to as long as he isn't cutting the heads off of chickens in session.

 


As long as one of those Chickens is named Hillary..Why not?

Some good old fasioned Roman style Bloodletting on Capitol hill may be just what the government needs ;)
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Offline VOR

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2006, 03:47:46 PM »
Well, since you put it that way...

:p

Offline Black Sheep

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2006, 03:56:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
We arent a Catholic, Protestant, Prespeterian, Presbyterian, Methodist or Jewish  state either
We are all of the above. And then some

We are an inclusive nation.
Not an exclusive one


Well thats what I mean - Those 6 you mention make up the majority. They can swear on a Sears catalogue for all I care - as long as the values of the majority which this country is based upon are upheld.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2006, 04:23:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Black Sheep
Well thats what I mean - Those 6 you mention make up the majority. They can swear on a Sears catalogue for all I care - as long as the values of the majority which this country is based upon are upheld.


So whats the problem?

What does it matter to you if he swears in on the Bible, the Quran. or a Sears Catalog?

BTW if you strip away all the BS and brought each religeon down to the basic lesssons they all teach pretty much the same things.

Dont Steal. Dont kill. etc etc
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Offline Thrawn

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2006, 04:27:08 PM »
Still no tradition of congressmen being sworn in with hands on bibles.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/30/koran-bible-prager-ellison/

Offline Chairboy

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 04:38:46 PM »
So then what is this Prager guy's problem, and why does it have such wide coverage?
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Offline lukster

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2006, 04:41:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
So then what is this Prager guy's problem, and why does it have such wide coverage?


Looks like he doesn't like Muslims. Good question on the wide coverage part. Why did it grab your attention?

Offline Thrawn

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Swearing in to congress
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 05:08:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
So then what is this Prager guy's problem, and why does it have such wide coverage?



Stuff that makes people feel righteously indignant sells.  I know I get off on feeling that way more often than I would like to.