Author Topic: Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers  (Read 1010 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« on: December 06, 2006, 09:48:51 AM »
When will this bleeding stop? I once spoke to a person that stated:

"Soon, Boeing will be kocked off its perch as producer of the largest airliner when the A380 enters service in 2006. In a typical configuration the A380 will seat 555 passengers.
So it looks like Europe is carrying the torch for airliner development right now, and will continue to do so for many years. "



Today, Boeing hit an all-time stock price high of $91+ dollars today (*See stock price increase since 2003 at bottom*) and still rising. There is a huge 20-plane order they're about to announce for 747-8's, of which 32 they've sold to date since announcing the 747-8 in 2005.

The stock price traditionally has split at the $70 range, but I believe Boeing is letting this go higher  due to back orders on the 787 and 747-8.

The company couldn't be doing better, and historically speaking, has never been in a better position, commercially speaking, with the arrival of the 787 and 747-8, the latter which will be back-filling canceled A380 orders.

What will Airbus do to prevent this bleeding? What has Boeing done to prevent going down the same CAD/CAM path as EADS? I'd like to tell you what we're doing to prevent that same mistake, but its proprietary info. ;) One thing is certain, we've learned from Airbus's mistakes.  I'm certainly glad they were "out front" technologically speaking, with a new CAD system, while trying to integrate  legacy CAD system data in the development of the A380...after all, we could have made the first step and easily been in EADS position right now.

*
« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 11:36:21 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline GtoRA2

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2006, 10:22:14 AM »
You know all your doing is making beater make another shade.


The guy has no shame.

Offline Chairboy

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2006, 10:25:10 AM »
But all these airlines and cargo companies are subsidizing Boeing!  It's exactly the same as Airbus!
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline LePaul

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2006, 10:31:29 AM »
I think you are thumping your chest prematurely.

While the A380 is delayed and having growing pains, they have a physical product to show off.   The Boeing 787 Dreamliner hasnt even started production yet.  And be certain that when it does and runs into delays, it will make the news much like Airbus' has.

Further, 70% of the Dreamliner is made abroad.  Its assembled in back here.  But should one key component run late, it will slow the entire production down.  Just like the 380.

So Rip, enjoy your moment of glory.  It may have to last you for a couple years.

Offline LePaul

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2006, 10:34:30 AM »
From Aero-News.Net (yesterday)

Crunch Time: Boeing Prepares To Build The 787
Tue, 05 Dec '06

But Potential Problems Lie Ahead

From recent news reports, you might think Boeing can do no wrong as Airbus continues to stumble. But that's not necessarily the case. In fact, many of the teething problems that have plagued the A380 may still await Boeing's upcoming 787 Dreamliner, as the company prepares to build its first test aircraft.

Until now, the Dreamliner has existed primarily the minds and computers of engineers assigned to the project... and turning those images into reality may yet prove difficult.

"Every time we do a new airplane we essentially bet the company to some extent," said Scott Carson, head of Boeing's commercial airplane division, to the Washington Post. "When you are placing that kind of bet, you want to get it right. You have to get right."

No other commercial airliner has been built the way Boeing plans to produce the 787 -- at least, not on the same scope. Instead of building the plane in-house, for example, Boeing is allowing outside contractors -- many of them overseas -- to design and build 70 percent of the aircraft.

The wings will come from Japan, for example, while composite fuselage barrel segments will be flown over from Italy. A Chinese company is building rudders for the plane; France is producing the 787's landing gear. The components will be assembled at Boeing's Everett, WA facility.

That's an impressive sign of the global nature of today's economy... but that also leaves a lot of room for potential problems. Airbus took a similar tack when building the mammoth A380 superjumbo, for example, and that plane is now suffering its third production-related delay.

"This program is probably the most complicated thing that [Boeing] commercial airplanes has ever done," said 787 program manager Mike Bair. "From a commercial airplane structure point of view, this is going from cloth and wood to aluminum."


Boeing has approximately 430 orders for the 787... four times the number Airbus can claim for its A350XWB. Airbus redesigned its aircraft this year to present a stronger competitor to the 787.

Already, Boeing has had to bring some outsourced assembly procedures in-house for the prototype, as the company assigned to build those components wasn't meeting Boeing's standards. The manufacturer has also invested an additional $500 million in bringing the plane's target weight down.

Those problems are expected to be worked out in time for production... but what lies ahead for what is arguably Boeing's most important project to date remains uncertain.

"There are literally... a million things that can go wrong in the process that could throw them off track," said analyst Scott Hamilton

Offline Ripsnort

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2006, 10:38:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
I think you are thumping your chest prematurely.

While the A380 is delayed and having growing pains, they have a physical product to show off.   The Boeing 787 Dreamliner hasnt even started production yet.  And be certain that when it does and runs into delays, it will make the news much like Airbus' has.

Further, 70% of the Dreamliner is made abroad.  Its assembled in back here.  But should one key component run late, it will slow the entire production down.  Just like the 380.

So Rip, enjoy your moment of glory.  It may have to last you for a couple years.

You must have missed the wiring problems and CADCAM compatibility problems that were in the news recently? Supplier services are not as big of a factor for delays at Airbus as the wiring installation incompatibility problems that Airbus had with V4 and V5...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 10:41:55 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline Ripsnort

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2006, 10:41:08 AM »
Incidently, today in Everett is the "Virtual Roll Out" of the 787, which is a digital computer simulation of 787 production and assembly process.

Offline Hawco

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Re: Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2006, 11:01:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
When will this bleeding stop? I once spoke to a person that stated:

"Soon, Boeing will be kocked off its perch as producer of the largest airliner when the A380 enters service in 2006. In a typical configuration the A380 will seat 555 passengers.
So it looks like Europe is carrying the torch for airliner development right now, and will continue to do so for many years. "



Today, Boeing hit an all-time stock price high of $91+ dollars today and still rising. There is a huge 20-plane order they're about to announce for 747-8's, of which 32 they've sold to date since announcing the 747-8 in 2005.

The stock price traditionally has split at the $70 range, but I believe Boeing is letting this go higher  due to back orders on the 787 and 747-8.

The company couldn't be doing better, and historically speaking, has never been in a better position, commercially speaking, with the arrival of the 787 and 747-8, the latter which will be back-filling canceled A380 orders.

What will Airbus do to prevent this bleeding? What has Boeing done to prevent going down the same CAD/CAM path as EADS? I'd like to tell you what we're doing to prevent that same mistake, but its proprietary info. ;) One thing is certain, we've learned from Airbus's mistakes.  I'm certainly glad they were "out front" technologically speaking, with a new CAD system, while trying to integrate  legacy CAD system data in the development of the A380...after all, we could have made the first step and easily been in EADS position right now.

Funny how you never mentioned the shady attempt at trying to win the tanker deal that went south rapidly either.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2006, 11:01:36 AM »
Thai airline has a 50/50 fleet of Boeing/Airbus about 8o aircrafts strong. I'll would not be too worried about banning one manufacturer.
In August 2005, they canceled the purchace of 2 A340 also, but it was for fanancial reason, they couldn't afford them. :D

... plus they haven't canceled yet, they threatened it.:D
Dat jugs bro.

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Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Re: Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2006, 11:10:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
Funny how you never mentioned the shady attempt at trying to win the tanker deal that went south rapidly either.

We're talking Commercial airlines here. If you want to revisit that thread, go search for it, or start one.

Offline Hawco

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Re: Re: Re: Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2006, 11:16:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
We're talking Commercial airlines here. If you want to revisit that thread, go search for it, or start one.

A bit touchy today me thinks?

Offline Ripsnort

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2006, 11:16:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Thai airline has a 50/50 fleet of Boeing/Airbus about 8o aircrafts strong. I'll would not be too worried about banning one[/size] manufacturer.
In August 2005, they canceled the purchace of 2 A340 also, but it was for fanancial reason, they couldn't afford them. :D

... plus they haven't canceled yet, they threatened it.:D

Deliveries will be pushed back by nearly two years.
Malaysia Airlines and ILFC are still considering the cancellation of their orders.

Launch customers Singapore Airlines, Emirates and Qantas also were reported to be angered by the delays and expecting compensation. Emirates, saw its first delivery pushed back to August 2008 and said as a result that it was considering scaling back its order potentially in favour of the rival Boeing 747-8.  Virgin Atlantic deferred its deliveries by four years, to 2013. FedEx dropped its order for ten A380F freighters in favor of 15 Boeing 777F freighters.

Its not just ONE.

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2006, 11:18:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
A bit touchy today me thinks?

Not at all. The military side  of the house doesn't affect me at all.

Incidently, here is the thread about the tanker deal:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136367&highlight=Boeing+Tanker
« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 11:21:13 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2006, 11:46:46 AM »
You missunderstanded me Rip, I said "[ThaiAir] banning one manufactureur, not one airline banning Airbus.

Airlines need planes right away, but buy/sale fairly often as the market changes.

Gloating on orders cancelations on a one year period seems shortsighted when the production life of the A380s is going to be 30+ years. Those A380s are going to be eventually available, and airlines will buy them. In the meantime, they will by Boeings, or other Airbuses types. It's not like those cancellations are going to sink Airbus, or give the aircraft sale monopoly to Boeing.
:rolleyes:
Dat jugs bro.

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Offline Ripsnort

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Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2006, 11:57:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
You missunderstanded me Rip, I said "[ThaiAir] banning one manufactureur, not one airline banning Airbus.

Airlines need planes right away, but buy/sale fairly often as the market changes.

Gloating on orders cancelations on a one year period seems shortsighted when the production life of the A380s is going to be 30+ years. Those A380s are going to be eventually available, and airlines will buy them. In the meantime, they will by Boeings, or other Airbuses types. It's not like those cancellations are going to sink Airbus, or give the aircraft sale monopoly to Boeing.
:rolleyes:

The only "gloat" was that 3 years ago, people could  not have been more wrong about Boeing.  Other than that statement, I asked a question: What will Airbus do to prevent this bleeding?

I've yet to see a valid answer.

I agree, there is more demand for aircraft than manufacturers. That's good news for EADS in this time of turbulent weather.