Author Topic: Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)  (Read 1885 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« on: December 08, 2006, 01:00:25 PM »
So as to not take over KiLtH's  Bomber Wing thread, I'll post here a few observations regarding strategic bombing in the war arenas.  Comments and corrections welcome.

First, the purpose and results of strategic (strat) bombing.

Stat targets include those found at the airbases:  Radar (dar) - which "blinds" enemy,  Ordanance (ord) - which prevents use of bombs and rockets,  Troop Barracks (troops) - which takes paratroopers and supplies out,  Fuel Dumps (fuel) - which limit fuel loads to 75% and takes away drop tanks (DT's).

Strat Targets also include the Strat Factories - radar, ammo, troop training, and fuel each used to resupply bases' strats;  Cities, which resupply strat facotries and the HQ;  and the HQ which coordinates dar to give us the radar bars (dar-bar).  Strats run drone auto resupply trains, convoys, and barges on a regular basis... 5 minutes after one arrives, or is destroyed, another starts out.

The majority of strat targets require 250#'s of ord dropped on each target (AAA factory,  Radar factory,  Ammo factory, Fuel refinery Training facility, City building) within a strat target area to destroy it.  Downtime is 3 hours, if not-resupplied.  Approximately 75 minutes if fully auto resupplied, and over 2 hours if partially auto resupplied (meaning the supplying base is also under 50%).  A strat target within a zone that is knocked below 50% capability has it's resupply effects lowered to 17% (1/6th) effectiveness.

In comparison, the strats at a Base stay down 2 hours if not resupplied, about 1 hour if drone resupplied, and about 75 minutes if paritally auto resupplied.

Thus; by bombing cities and strat factories, follow on attacks (porking) of bases's strat targets will have a greater and longer effect in the offensive operations of another Country in the arena, unless there is a large resupply effort by pilots of that country.  This is not an effort that can be taken on by one or two pilots... this takes some cooperative effort.


Bomber Formations

The best way to keep a formation of bombers together is to not run at full throttle and engine rpm the whole trip.  
A sequence of events that works for me:  
  • Spawn from a mission so Ord and Fuel options are the same.
  • Hold on Runway, throttles closed, until every one has spawned.
  • Set flaps to 0 (W Key)
  • Flight lead should pull ahead a couple plane lengths on runway.
  • At flight leaders command, all go to full throttle (manifold) and full engine rpm (keypad +)
  • Autoclimbout, or Autoclimb (ALT-X) (which reportedly is a little more efficient) - this is flight leader's choice.
  • Once you've achieved some altitude, lead sets a lower Manifold (throttle) and possibly lower RPM settings for group.
  • Turns should be wide and shallow and made either with "turrent" turns -- rudder turn from turrent position and external view (F3), or with use of J and L Keys.  Proper course planning will limit turns to few and shallow angle, and preferable after the group has leveled out.


By running less than full speed, pilots have enough "catch-up" power to make adjustments to maintain a tight effective formation.

You will lose planes in formation.  People will go AFK.  Some have their Manifold and RPM settings linked, and therefore will be unable to maintain the group's power settings.  Some connection problems will arise, and large groups will experience poor frame rates.

Some will want to form up, then go back to full throttle again.  I avoid this, I've seen the formations start to drift again once this is done.  B-17's, B-24's, Lancs, JU-88's, and B-26's also tend to climb in altitude, even when in level flight, when at full throttle.  If you are going after point targets... ie hangars and base strats... your calibration will be off.  Many buff drivers can adjust for this, or salvo those targets, but the bombsight in AHII is capable of extreme accuracy to extreme heights, if you can keep you altitude steady and get a long calibration time.  Carpet bombing strat factories, towns, and cities are less a problem, but I still set the group at less than full speed to keep the formation tight.


Formations in Practice.

A good formation has the various flights staggered slightly vertically and horizontally.  This opens up fields of fire for each flight to aid in their mutual defense against attacking planes.  Below is a good example of spacing of bombers.  The flights should try to keep spacing on each other, but the primary objective, once in formation, is to keep their spacing with their assigned lead plane.  The  /.wingman playername  command can help.  The idea is to keep the distance number between you and the lead plane to change as little as possible.  Adjustments should be slight.  The J and L keys are best for this.

Also, it is a good idea to ensure that Combat Trim is active.  The little green light on the dash will tell you if combat trim is enabled.  This is activated and deactivated by the Auto-Level (X), Auto-SPeed/Climb (ALTX), and Auto-Angle(SHIFT-X) keys.




The Attack

Due to the size of Cities and factories in-game, it is best for formations to be 4 or 5 flights across, and however many flights deep as you have planes.  Strat targets are best attacked  North-South  or  East-West.  Divide the target into "lanes" for each flight to be responsible for on the attack run.  Large bomber groups attacking several targets with part of their load on each attack can also divide each lane into "spans".

Say you have 12 bombers attacking 3 strat targets:  They form up 4 bombers across, and 3 deep, similar to the formation shown above.  They divide the target into 4 lanes; outside left, inside left, inside right, outside right, corresponding to the flight positions in the formation.

Additionally, each row of bombers take a "span" of their lane.  The first bomber on the far left front of the formation takes the first 1/3rd of the outside left lane of the target, and set's his salvo to 1/3rd his bomb load, and appropirate delay, as directed by the flight leader.  The second bomber in that row attacks the middle 1/3rd of that lane.  The rear bomber in that lane attacks the far 1/3rd of that lane.

Delay and Salvo

The ".delay #.##"  and ".salvo #" commands come in handy with large bomber groups against strat targets.

One B-17 loaded with 16 - 250# bombs, with .delay 16 and .salvo 0.40 will walk their ord across a strat factory square's structures, when released at the first structure the bombers' sight passes over.  With 12 500# bombs, the delay changes to 0.50, with a little poorer overlap.  Width-wise, the bombs impact almost 1/4 of the width of the strat factory target area.

These bomb settings will cross about 1/2 of a City target area, but City buildings are spread out further than strat factories, so carpet bombing is less effective than area bombing groups of buildings.


The most strat targets that could be effectively targeted by a large bomber group would be 4.  1/4 of the bomb load on each target ( .salvo 4 of 250# bombs  .delay 0.40) which would require at least 16 flights of bombers; 4 across, 4 deep....or up to 20 bombers; 5 across, 4 deep.  Beyond that there will be a lot of extra ord placed on target.  Having pilots divide their lanes into smaller spans than 1/4 of their length gets a little problematic.


Radio Traffic

Chatter should be limited on channels for larger groups.  Fighter cover and bombers should have seperate tunned channels, and coordinate over local channel.  Try to make use of the text buffer for most chatter, especially in enemy airspace and near the target.  Keep the voice channels open to enemy spotting reports, warnings, and directions from the leaders.  Leaders should also post directives in text as well as voice to make sure everyone get's the message.  VOX goes out occassionally.  

Gunners should be brought onboard well before you line up on target and start calibration.  They should stay off the voice channel, except for warnings, but if you get an excitable kid that can't stay off the channel, just squelch him rather than get into a fight about radio discipline while on the bomb run.

Offline tedrbr

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2006, 01:01:26 PM »
Follow Up

Unless base strats are hit after a strategic bombing mission, the overall effect on the map war will be limited to whatever distraction a large number of enemy bombers over a country can cause.  Following up a strat bombing raid by porking zone bases can be very effective.


Bombers

LANCI know I see a lot of LANCs in the arena, and it carried the most, but it's poor defensive armament, and low speeds and climb rates, and limited bomb selection, makes it my least favorite bomber for strat bombing raids.

B-24 Probably best if you are hitting hangars or HQ and want better defensive options than a Lanc gives you.  8 - 1K's only option to consider vs hangars, 4 - 2K's for HQ.

B-17 My favorite for mass strat attacks.  16-250# bombs the load of choice for good coverage of the target.  500#'s can work too, depends on how many bombers along for mission.  Good defensive guns.  A Large formation of B-17's just looks good too, especially with skins.

JU-88's Fun for a change of pace, or for gathering buff perks, but can be easily defeated without a lot of fighter cover.  Carries more than a B-17 ord wise, but poor defensive capabilities.  Better for short runs to targets once your country has pushed deep into enemy territory.

Ar-234's Also more for fun than practical raid.  Way for buff drivers to burn off otherwise useless buff perks.  Run with 262 fighter cover.  Probably best as an HQ Raid (and maybe the city that resups the HQ in that zone).  A novelty run, but those are fun too.

B-26 and Ki-67 both decent medium to light bombers.  Not what I'd pick for a strat factory or city attack, but against towns, or follow up attacks against base strats following a larger raid these work well.  Ki-67 also a good penetration bomber to hit ord and dar at multiple bases.  B-26 a decent ground strafer after delivering ord.  Still would love to see a perked A-26 Invader bomber in the plane set.


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Offline Krusty

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2006, 01:26:08 PM »
I disagree on the Ki67. It's fast and climbs well, but is all but useless. You can carry 1 1000lb bomb per drone, MAX, so all you can even hope to take out is a single hangar. If you want to take out towns/strat, the Ju88 is better because it carries more of the smaller bombs (plus the 88s carry externals). B26 is a very formidable bomber, but if you think about upping a Ki67, just take a P47 instead. A P47 can carry 2500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets, plus over 2000 rounds of 50cal. It would probably survive better than the Ki bomber.

This, however, is just my opinion.

Offline BaldEagl

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2006, 01:33:21 PM »
"Still would love to see a perked A-26 Invader bomber in the plane set"

I'd like to see the A26 in the plane set too.  I'd also like to see the single 16,000 lb. or whatever it was bomb option as a perk for the Lancaster (how about just making a seperate Lanc with this load-out as a perk ride?) with appropriate proximity damage of course.

I suppose this should be in the wish list but you brought it up.
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Offline tedrbr

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2006, 03:53:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I disagree on the Ki67. It's fast and climbs well, but is all but useless. You can carry 1 1000lb bomb per drone, MAX, so all you can even hope to take out is a single hangar. If you want to take out towns/strat, the Ju88 is better because it carries more of the smaller bombs (plus the 88s carry externals). B26 is a very formidable bomber, but if you think about upping a Ki67, just take a P47 instead. A P47 can carry 2500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets, plus over 2000 rounds of 50cal. It would probably survive better than the Ki bomber.



You're right that against hangars, the Ki-67 is not well suited at all, except *maybe* hitting a VH or two, in limited circumstances.  Nor does it carry enough ord to go after factory strats or towns well.   You are also right that several attack planes, like the JUG,  have better capabilities than the Ki-67 does.  This was a bomber thread, and I don't JABO much myself, so I kept away from that topic.

The best load out for the Flying Dragon is the 8 - 100kg (over 200lbs) bombs.  The best targets for the Ki-67, with the current maps, are radar and ordanance, or enemy CV's (yes, you *can* sink a CV with a flight of Ki-67's, if you are lucky or good, and with bombs, not torps - Ki-67 is a lousy torp platform).   Used to be troops were good targets too, but too many of them now on the bases.  If troops are your targets, other platforms are better.

The Ki-67 is a very nitch plane.  You can get to 5 to 6K fast (about 300mph at 5K, 310mph at 10K, 325mph at 15K, and best speed around 332 at 20K) .... get over target fast.... and deliver a light bomb load.  The flight is very suseptable to course corrections.... drones take a while to get back into the pattern.  It shares with the B-26 a vulnerability to low six /belly attacks against it.  

After a large raid, listed in the thread, this would not be a bad plane to conduct follow on stikes with, for a buff driver.  And it is a fun change of pace from the same old bombers all the time.  But, still, a very limited use plane.

Offline tedrbr

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Oh, and for your iPod....
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2006, 04:17:23 PM »
As a side note: appropriate music to go along with any large buff raid, what I like to listen to en route, or to be added to the movies and slideshows afterward, include, in no particular order:

"The Mob Rules"   by  Black Sabbath
"Block Rockin' Beats"  and  "Piku"  by  The Chemical Brothers
"Forsaken"  by David Drainman
"Heavy Fuel"  by Dire Straits
"Bodies" by Drowning Pool
"Epic" by Faith No More
"Absurd" (Whitewash edition) by Fluke
"DOA" by the Foo Fighters
"What Are You Waiting For" by Gwen Stefani
"Heavy Metal", "Ram It Down", "Hard As Iron", "Delivering the Goods", "The Sentinel" all by Judas Priest
"Black Horse & The Cherry Tree"  by KT Tunstall
"Bom Bom Bom"  by Living Things
"Missing Time"  by  MDFMK
"Forgotten Years"  Midnight Oil
"Detroit Rock City"  version by Mighty Mighty Bosstones
"Space Lord"  and "Powertrip"  by Monster Magnet
"Head Like a Hole"  and  "The Hand That Feeds"   by Nine Inch Nails
"Infinity"  and  "Millionaire"  by Queens of the Stone Age
"Black Betty"  by either  Ram Jam,  or Spiderbait
"Feuer Frei"  by Ramstein
"Radar Rider"  by Riggs
"Highwire" by The Rolling Stones
"Battle Without Honor Or Humanity"  Tomoyasu Hotei  (from Kill Bill, Vol. 1)
"Heavy Metal" by Sammy Hagar
"Heavy Metal (Takin'A Ride)" by Don Felder (movie: Heavy Metal)
"Carmina Burana: O Fortuna"  from the movie "Excalibur"   (as opposed to "Ride of the Valkiries" from movie "Apocalypse Now")

among others.... I've got 96 songs in the playlist for flying Buffs alone.......

:D  :D  :D

Offline FiLtH

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2006, 04:44:47 PM »
Great info Ted!

    Staying in a horizontal line 50ft of the guy in front of you is the easy part. Staying 50 ft or so from the guy to your right and left is hard. Tweaking the rudder to stay on the lead without separating takes concentration.

~AoM~

Offline EagleEyes

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Re: Oh, and for your iPod....
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2006, 04:48:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
As a side note: appropriate music to go along with any large buff raid, what I like to listen to en route, or to be added to the movies and slideshows afterward, include, in no particular order:

"The Mob Rules"   by  Black Sabbath
"Block Rockin' Beats"  and  "Piku"  by  The Chemical Brothers
"Forsaken"  by David Drainman
"Heavy Fuel"  by Dire Straits
"Bodies" by Drowning Pool
"Epic" by Faith No More
"Absurd" (Whitewash edition) by Fluke
"DOA" by the Foo Fighters
"What Are You Waiting For" by Gwen Stefani
"Heavy Metal", "Ram It Down", "Hard As Iron", "Delivering the Goods", "The Sentinel" all by Judas Priest
"Black Horse & The Cherry Tree"  by KT Tunstall
"Bom Bom Bom"  by Living Things
"Missing Time"  by  MDFMK
"Forgotten Years"  Midnight Oil
"Detroit Rock City"  version by Mighty Mighty Bosstones
"Space Lord"  and "Powertrip"  by Monster Magnet
"Head Like a Hole"  and  "The Hand That Feeds"   by Nine Inch Nails
"Infinity"  and  "Millionaire"  by Queens of the Stone Age
"Black Betty"  by either  Ram Jam,  or Spiderbait
"Feuer Frei"  by Ramstein
"Radar Rider"  by Riggs
"Highwire" by The Rolling Stones
"Battle Without Honor Or Humanity"  Tomoyasu Hotei  (from Kill Bill, Vol. 1)
"Heavy Metal" by Sammy Hagar
"Heavy Metal (Takin'A Ride)" by Don Felder (movie: Heavy Metal)
"Carmina Burana: O Fortuna"  from the movie "Excalibur"   (as opposed to "Ride of the Valkiries" from movie "Apocalypse Now")

among others.... I've got 96 songs in the playlist for flying Buffs alone.......

:D  :D  :D



Wheres...

"I like big butts" by Sir Mix alot??
Joedog31

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Offline FiLtH

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 04:53:39 PM »
You forgot Angel of Death- SLaYeR

~AoM~

Offline Overlag

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2006, 04:54:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I disagree on the Ki67. It's fast and climbs well, but is all but useless. You can carry 1 1000lb bomb per drone, MAX, so all you can even hope to take out is a single hangar. If you want to take out towns/strat, the Ju88 is better because it carries more of the smaller bombs (plus the 88s carry externals). B26 is a very formidable bomber, but if you think about upping a Ki67, just take a P47 instead. A P47 can carry 2500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets, plus over 2000 rounds of 50cal. It would probably survive better than the Ki bomber.

This, however, is just my opinion.


a Ki67 is almost as fast as a P47......infact most things WONT catch it at 21k

a ki67 has a 20mm cannon top turret....

a ki67 has 8x100kgs which... are "ok" against fuel factories. the 250kgs are fine for city drops.... if theres enough of u
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline navajoboy

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Re: Re: Oh, and for your iPod....
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2006, 04:58:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by EagleEyes
Wheres...

"I like big butts" by Sir Mix alot??


one i use to like...

disturbed - droppin plates
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Offline Wolfala

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2006, 09:32:50 PM »
Joe Walsh - I love big tits


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Offline Overlag

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2006, 10:24:45 PM »
bit of a mess that mission....... 90buffs and HQ didnt go down. doh......

edit and 250lbs are next to useless.... 1000lbs for "hard" (HQ) targets, and 500lbs for soft.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2006, 10:43:42 PM by Overlag »
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Flayed1

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2006, 01:01:41 AM »
I use the KI-67 alot for porking factories, a load of 8 bombs usually can take one down by 20% or so and if you get a couple more guys togeather there you go...

 I use them also for porking troops on bases. It takes exactly 2 passes on a small base to kill all barracks. Larger bases are harder of course and may need to have someone back you up or you will have to go back and clean them up your self.

 I can usually survive about 3 maybe 4 NME attacks with them but much over that and ammo becomes a  problem, not enough :)


 personally I think your selling this great bomber short.
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Offline Hornet33

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Strategic Bombing in AHII (LONG)
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2006, 08:21:28 AM »
I've found the Ki-67 tp be a great bomber for a couple of missions. First is dropping DAR at forward bases. The second is for hitting CV's.

For both missions I like to use the 15 / 50KG loadout. On DAR runs I'll salvo 1 egg, set my flight plan so I don't have to do allot of turning and climb out to 21-22K. I can usually drop a DAR with every drop and take down DAR at 15 different fields in short order.

For CV runs I'll set the salvo at 15 and the delay at .05 and drop from either 10 or 20K. With lots of bombs you get a very nice "shotgun" effect with massive amounts of blast damage. If the lineup is good and you can come right down the center of the flight deck 1 formation with this load can sink a CV. It is my plane of choice if I know where a CV is roughly located.

If I'm going CV hunting I'll take B-17's with 16 / 250lbrs and 75% fuel for extended search patterns and climb out to 20K. Drop everything in one pass with a .05 delay and then RTB. Killed many a CV with both bombers (Ki-67's and B-17's) this way.
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