Author Topic: Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet  (Read 1946 times)

Offline Nilsen

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2006, 01:16:08 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
closeted communist?


water closeted or regular closeted?

Offline Ack-Ack

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2006, 01:20:37 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Intersting reading on Pinochet. Again, clearly a great man - a hero.

http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications/practicegroupnewsletters/internationalnews/pinochet-internv3i1.htm



Unless you were Chilean then I'm sure the description would be more like "terrorist, murderer, fascist, criminal, etc..."

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Offline Hawco

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2006, 01:35:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hawco - are you a left leaning person, a socialist or perhaps a closeted communist?


[In September, 1973,] General Pinochet, with the assistance of the CIA
and the ITT Corporation, took over the government of Chile, bombing the
presidential palace of elected socialist Salvador Allende, and murdering him.
Victor was singing for students at the university when the whole area was
surrounded. All within were taken prisoner and marched to a large soccer stadium, Estadio Chile. For three days it was a scene of horror. Torture,
executions. An officer thought he recognized Victor, pointed at him with a
questioning look and motioning as if strumming a guitar. Victor nodded.
He was seized, taken to the center of the stadium and told to put his hands
on a table. While his friends watched in horror, rifle butts beat his hands to
bloody pulp. "All right, sing for us now, you ---," shouted the officer. [Victor
Stagg SKW apr00]
Chile was a great place unless you were one of these poor souls, or the thousands of others who dissapeared.
Conveniently ignoring the fact that Allende's government was democratically elected (on an increased majority for it's second term as well).

You are attempting to lead us to believe that the overthrow of this government and the transformation of the Santiago Stadium into a concentration camp was a legitimate and indeed beneficial twist of history for Chile and humankind? That you would suggest such a thing is abhorrent and says much about the values held within right-wing circles worldwide. Democracy is fine until such times as an attempt is made to bring about social reforms of benefit to the many as opposed to the 'elite'. Do you support Pinochet's methods?

I would suggest you read some newspaper articles which interviews survivors of Pinochet's genocide if for nothing else to gain some sense of what his rule meant in terms of human suffering.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2006, 01:51:08 PM »
Hawco, thanks for answering my question. You're a communist.

And yes Chile is way better off because of Pinochet - it's a free, economically stable, prosperous and democratic nation, it's a beacon of stability and progrss in South America. He stopped Allende and his gang from turning Chilke into a disster and when the time was right, he put his rule to a vote, allowed multiparty party elections and LOST and left office quietly to the new admistration. Thats pretty neat for a despot...

Unlike say socialist wonderlands like Cuba, which use all sorts of methods "to bring about social reforms of benefit to the many as opposed to the 'elite'."

Here is some reading for you:

http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications...-internv3i1.htm

Offline Hawco

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2006, 01:56:25 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hawco, thanks for answering my question. You're a communist.

And yes Chile is way better off because of Pinochet - it's a free, economically stable, prosperous and democratic nation, it's a beacon of stability and progrss in South America. He stopped Allende and his gang from turning Chilke into a disster and when the time was right, he put his rule to a vote, allowed multiparty party elections and LOST and left office quietly to the new admistration. Thats pretty neat for a despot...

Unlike say socialist wonderlands like Cuba, which use all sorts of methods "to bring about social reforms of benefit to the many as opposed to the 'elite'."

Here is some reading for you:

http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications...-internv3i1.htm


thats clap trap.
Yes Chile is a healthy state if you are in the top 10% but figures show that Chile in terms of wealth distribution is one of the worst in the world, only Brazil is worse in Latin America and Chile is behind many sub Saharan nations.estimated 55% of the population are bellow the poverty line as classed by the UN.

Please show some documented cases that Allende committed human rights violations or was planning to remove democracy. Allende was a soft left of the type of British labor not a Marxist.I am not looking for facts made up by Dr strange love. Its easy to find cases to support Pinochet's murders where is your evidence for such claims you have made??
what we do know is that a democratically elected leader was removed by undemocratic forces.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2006, 02:21:27 PM »

Offline Krusher

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2006, 02:38:40 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
55% povery in Chile - thats crap. An outright lie - show me your source commie.

I have multiple sources thats say its in 17-18% range. Here is one.

 



I think he is looking at Chavesland. Their poverty rate is almost 50 percent and growing by the year.

BTW here is another source that backs your numbers Grun.

CIAWFB

Offline Shuffler

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2006, 02:41:34 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ


Heck I think the state of texas kills as many on death row.
 


Well since you brought it up...

All the trash we kill are the lowest scum on earth. My problem with the death penalty is that it is not used enough.

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2006, 02:45:04 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusher
I think he is looking at Chavesland. Their poverty rate is almost 50 percent and growing by the year.

BTW here is another source that backs your numbers Grun.

CIAWFB


CIA LIES!  :furious :lol

Offline Ack-Ack

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2006, 04:14:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
55% povery in Chile - thats crap. An outright lie - show me your source commie.

I have multiple sources thats say its in 17-18% range. Here is one.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Z28wIjR-l7gJ:www-wds.worldbank.org/servlet/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/2001/10/19/000094946_01100504033520/Rendered/PDF/multi0page.pdf+chile+poverty&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a



Urban poverty levels were reduced in Chile from 23% to 18% between 1994 and 1998.  In comparison, Uraguy's urban poverty level was reduced from 12% to 6% during that same period.  Chile's achievement was due to high economic growth but did not bring any shift income distribution.   Again in comparison, Uraguy had a slower economic growth but was able to reduce the gap between the rich and the poor.

So basically, in Chile the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2006, 04:16:35 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
CIA LIES!  :furious :lol



BTW---you're super star Pinochet authorized a terrorist action in the United States.  So I guess you also support terrorism besides tyranny.


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Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2006, 04:28:03 PM »
It was a targeted political asasination of an individual - using a small car bomb. A well run thing IIRC, just got the bastige and one of his aides!!! Rather different than random acts of terorism like the 911 attacks, Oklahoma city or the Olympic game bombing.  

Clean targeted and done with remakable restraint - just like most all the 3000 or so deaths in the 17 years difficult struggle Pinochet led against Marxist tyrany in Chile before peacefully leaving office and handing off to a democratically elected free government after losing an election in 1990.

WTG Pinochet! Best right wing military dictator ever! :aok (Or at least, its a close tie between him and Franco)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2006, 05:13:35 PM »
Stop digging your own hole GRUN.

right or left wing dictator is bad in all cases.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2006, 05:17:02 PM »
Simply making a clear distinction and correcting his error,  straffo.

Neither is ideal, but in a cold war setting a right wing, miltary dictator with pro growth economic policy  that aligned the country with the usa is infintely better for that country. Communism is the worst idea ever, and I think history has proved that.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 05:23:27 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline straffo

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Rest in peace Genaral Pinochet
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2006, 05:43:01 PM »
Well I can't disagree completly.
 
I still think that praising Pinochet long after the end of the cold war is bad taste.