Author Topic: ki84's are a pain (Read 2750 times)

Krusty · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2006, 10:20:31 PM »

Spit14 turned as well, and as easily, as a spitV by all pilot accounts. In AH it's the worst, most unstable spit at turning. I suppose it's only a compromise because it's such a monster. Flown properly it's nearly unbeatable.

humble · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2006, 11:04:49 PM »

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Originally posted by Saxman
Actually, I find the Spit VIII a fairly easy kill as Spits go (the 14 being the easiest). Spit 16 and 9 are the toughest for me.

I'm suprised at the difference between the 8 and 16 since on paper the 16 is slightly better. I'm 33/8 overall vs the 16 this tour. I know none have been in anything near a 1 on 1. I'm 5/4 vs spitIX and 2 have been straight up 1 on 1's where I got hammered. I'm 8/3 vs the spitVIII with none in a 1 on 1.

I think the 9 & 8 simply tend to be flown by a "better" grade of spit drivers then the 16....but then I'm T&Bing them. Different styles would yield different strengths and weakness's.....

Reynolds · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2006, 12:59:43 AM »

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Originally posted by Krusty
Usually they're too stupid to know what they're doing other than "point nose at enemy, spray

I witnessed that tonight! While outrunning a Spit 16 I was still able to loop, roll, turn, and every other maneuver INSIDE him, while faster, in A g-14 with an oil leak. Someone else shot him before I did, but was fun being the better turner for once!

Oh and husky, you probably could. I am a VERY bad fighter pilot.

Roscoroo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2006, 02:12:47 AM »

the ki is easy to hunt and kill once you know its adv /disadv ... I sugest you fly it for a tour and learn it ...
now the spit 16 should be perked or the spit14 unperked ... the 16 imo has a faulty FM and does things that none of the other spits can do or recover from .

SKJohn · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:12:35 PM »

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Originally posted by humble
The Ki-84 is a much tougher nut to crack for a hog then a 16. The 16 is pretty easy to beat straight up in an angles fight. The Ki however is a different story. The real key is to avoid getting slow enough for the ki to deploy its flaps at the wrong time. The Ki is probably the only plane I run into that seems to totally outperform the hog at 80 mph but has good speed and acceleration. At very low speed the ki can just climb away or outturn the hog.

The real key to the ki is to keep it at arms length when possible until your positive E....then you need to fight the plane from above till you can go angles with some degree of success.

hog vs Ki-84

I also included a spit16 clip from over the weekend. I rarely lose a 1 on 1 with a spit 16 (spit 9 & 8 much tougher). This is a bit better in that the spitty doesnt make the mistake of going all angles but tries to E fight then convert. One of the better flown spit 16's I've run into....

Spit 16

No question at the end he was in a world of hurt and responding to other cons....but by then I was squarely on his 6 and you can see the hog has no problems staying with him.

Both links are to the same film - and i wanted to see the spit 16 film . . . .

Guppy35 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:16:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Spit14 turned as well, and as easily, as a spitV by all pilot accounts. In AH it's the worst, most unstable spit at turning. I suppose it's only a compromise because it's such a monster. Flown properly it's nearly unbeatable.

Where the heck did you read that Krusty? I've never seen that anywhere in all my years of Spit research.

14 was a much heavier beast and the pilots had to learn quickly it wasn't the turner that the Spit V or 9 was. It was much more of a B & Z bird. The 14 also climbed like a rocket according to pilots. It was their big advantage.

But it was not and should not ever turn like a Spit V. The IX shouldn't turn with a V either due to the weight difference.

Understand that one of the beefs of the Griffon Spits, starting with the XII was the need for constant trimming. It was more unstable.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:20:06 PM »

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Originally posted by humble
I'm suprised at the difference between the 8 and 16 since on paper the 16 is slightly better. I'm 33/8 overall vs the 16 this tour. I know none have been in anything near a 1 on 1. I'm 5/4 vs spitIX and 2 have been straight up 1 on 1's where I got hammered. I'm 8/3 vs the spitVIII with none in a 1 on 1.

I think the 9 & 8 simply tend to be flown by a "better" grade of spit drivers then the 16....but then I'm T&Bing them. Different styles would yield different strengths and weakness's.....

Unless it's a real good stick in the XVI, you'll beat it in a VIII. The average XVI driver thinks it should turn with the VIII or IX, but with the clipped wing, it will stall first low and slow and boom it's down.

I still don't see what the fuss is with the XVI or the KI. I love going into a brawl with one in the old 38G

Krusty · « **Reply #22 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:52:53 PM »

Guppy from many many posts on these forums (no doubt you recall the debates) the spit14 made up for the weight with much much more raw power, which could haul it around in a turn better.

humble · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2006, 02:04:22 PM »

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Originally posted by SKJohn
Both links are to the same film - and i wanted to see the spit 16 film . . . .

hog vs spit16

I probably have a dozen more lying around if you want em.....

Guppy35 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2006, 02:32:29 PM »

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Originally posted by Krusty
Guppy from many many posts on these forums (no doubt you recall the debates) the spit14 made up for the weight with much much more raw power, which could haul it around in a turn better.

Your comment was 'by all pilot accounts." I wondered where you saw em Krusty, cause i really have never heard a Spit pilot, and I have known quite a few who flew 5s and XIVs, and none said the XIV could turn like the V. Would they have taken a V over an XIV? Not a chance cause the XIV was a monster, but it wasn't a turnfighter in the same sense the V was.

If an XIV makes the mistake of turning slow with a 5 obviously the 5 will not stall out as soon and the XIV would be in trouble. But the XIV drivers wouldn't play that game.

Kinda like whenever the 38L drivers try and out turn my 38G low and slow. They can't do it cause they're heavier. The good ones won't play into that game though

Kweassa · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2006, 02:53:11 PM »

Actually, I very specifically remember a war-time evaluation mentioning the Spit14 has the same turning circle as its predecessors... I'm not good with searching stuff, but I'll see if I can come up with that report in the forums.

Kweassa · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2006, 03:01:33 PM »

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Turning Circle
18. The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV.

http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit14afdu.html

Woops, turns out to be the AFDU report 117 on the Spit14 that states the Spit14 has the same circle as the Spit9... My bad.

Krusty · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2006, 03:59:58 PM »

Guppy: My comment was a paraphrase of many other posts, combined with kweassa's remarks (and I remember reading something off these forums as well), but since he found the info that says spit9, I stand corrected.

I *thought* it was regarding the spit5. Oh well

Angus · « **Reply #28 on:** December 12, 2006, 04:57:39 PM »

The Spit XIV would turn with a IX at some alt.
Anyway, KI's are Spitfood

Krusty · « **Reply #29 on:** December 12, 2006, 05:00:42 PM »

Angus, the only thing I fear when in a Ki is a horde or a gangbang of 3:1 numbers or more. When in it, I don't really fear much. Then again, the same goes for when I'm in a spit16.