Finially subscribed, now come the ?'s

[Coshy]

I've been thinking about subscribing to AH2 for about a month now and finially signed up last night.

Ordinarilly this isnt the type of "game" that I'm drawn to. I haven't recently use any kind of sim "game", heck the last one I can remember was an F16 sim way back in 95 or so. If I remember correctly it came packaged with a Thrustmaster joystick.

However after trying out the free trial, and lurking around the forums I finially decided to give it a go. The deciding factor was actually the helpfulness of the people posting on the "Help and Training" forums. I've heard alot of very simple and basic questions asked, and with very few exceptions they have been answered in a polite and helpful manner. I'm much impressed.

I'm fairly comfortable with the basics of flight, what the various control surfaces do, and to some extent, how they can work together to make an aircraft perform various manuvers. Some of the advanced manuvers are going over my head at the moment, but I'm sure I'll have the "eureka!" moment and it will all make sense. Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later.

Fortunately I'm fairly bright and have already found the answeres to many of my questions, but as is the case with any new player, I have some questions that I havent (yet) been able to figure out.

As I'm a little pressed for time right now I'll make my question(s) simple. I've figured out how to do the Immelman, Split-S, and a rough interpretation of a barrel roll. The Yo-Yo and scissors are proving to be a bit more of a challenge for me. Does anyone have a video (training or combat) that shows either or both of these manuvers? I went here http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/ and found videos of the split-s and immelman, but I havent been able to reproduce the yo-yo based on the diagram given.

On that same site is a slideshow by Badboy showing a rolling scissors and while it was helpful, I'd still like to see a video. As I understand it, the rolling scissors is 2 planes performing barrel rolls to gain a gun solution. Hopefully I'm not too far off, and if I am, I'm sure someone will enlighten me.

I figure once I can master the various manuvers and perform them reliably I can begin to figure out when to use which manuver based on the situation.

I'm out of time, but I'd like to thank you for the responses I'm sure are coming.


Edit: I R teh gud speeler ... jeesh!

[Spatula]

Originally posted by Coshy
...but I'm sure I'll have the "eureka!" moment and it will all make sense.

Good luck with that. Ive been in WW2 combat flight sims for about 8 years now, and im still to have a 'eureka' moment. Just years of steady improvement which is still going on even today.

First you must realise simple moves like split-s and immelmans etc are called BFMs, while the yoyo and the scissors etc etc are ACMs. BFMs are movements relative to the horizon or ground only. ACMs are relative to another manuevering aircraft. So you cant, technically, practice a yo-yo without another aircraft to yo-yo around etc.

With that out of the way, the yoyo is one of two types: High and Low. The High yo-yo is essentially a climing then diving turn around another a/c. The low yo-yo is essentially the opposite: a diving, then climbing turn. Dont get too caught up in whether what you actually performed looks like a text-book yo-yo or not, its the principle.
You use a high yo-yo when you need to turn with slower bogie but you have too much speed. Any attempt to turn with them without a yo-yo will just waste lots of E, and probably end up with you overshooting.



You use a low yo-yo when you are too slow to turn at your best turn rate and need some speed to get up to corner velocity. It also puts you well into lead-pursuit and closes the gap between you and the bogie quickly.

[Coshy]

I think I get it ...

With a high yo-yo you are essentially making your flight path longer than your target so you both arrive at a point with the target in front. This is accomplished by climbing and turning, both bleeding off speed and putting you above and behind the target.

For the low yo-yo you are trading some alt for speed by diving, while the turn and eventual climb should put you below and behind the target.

Thats kind of what I meant when I said eureka moment. Not a moment when I understand everything, just a moment when I understand what I've got my mind set on figuring out, at least in principal if not practice.

Thank you for your response.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by Coshy
With a high yo-yo you are essentially making your flight path longer than your target so you both arrive at a point with the target in front. This is accomplished by climbing and turning, both bleeding off speed and putting you above and behind the target.

Yes, but more importantly the climbing part of the high yo-yo is slowing you down (and storing that speed as altitude) so that your a/c is either at or closer to your optimum 'corner velocity' (the speed at which your a/c turns its best degrees/second rate AND actual turn radius).
The low yo-yo is the opposite. You start below your optimal corner velocity so you dive a bit to get closer to it.

[Murdr]

Try this thread
The high yo-yo was well covered, and I also did a spur of the moment film demo of a few maneuvers.

And also, there are some training materials that have not been integrated into the trainers site yet on this page

[Phil]

You've been gettin' input from the TOP GUNS !
I'm new(2mths) !
Keep in mind that reading and lookin' at pictures/diagrams and understanding and sorting out what is said IS DIFFERENT when it comes to DOING IT !:furious

PATIENCE must be with you for a long time

I'm at that stage:mad:
READ - FLY - CRASH....
READ - FLY- FIGHT- 15seconds and get shot down:rofl
READ- FLY- FIGHT- 40seconds and again get shot down but this time you gave your oponent hard times;) Now that means you're gettin' better!

Don't give up !
I won't and I'M HAVIN' FUN !

Best of luck
OPP7755
Phil

[Schatzi]

Coshy, welcome to Aces High!



While reading and studying films is important and neccessary, dont forget the practical part of the equation. Knowing what to do in a certain situation is one thing - being able to do it another.

Come by the Training Arena and look for a Trainer (tagged with Aces High Trainer Corps on roster). Or use the request form on the Trainers Homepage to schedule some time with one of us.

If you see me online in any of the arenas, dont hesitate to shout my way and say hello! We can then go wing some or head to the TA. You can always look for me with the .f schatzi command (dot commands are just typed into your chat box).

What is your ingame callsign?

[Coshy]

Spatula - Thank you for expanding further. Knowing why a thing is done will help in figuring out when to do it. Now I just have to figure out what cornering velocity is, but thats a topic for another time.

Murdr - The video helped me understand the manuvers a little better, and its good to see I'm not the only one that likes to fly through the hangars.

Phil - Yes, it seems that patience is going to be key here. My idea is to figure out how to do the manuvers and then through much trial and error figure out when to use them.

Schatzi - I will certianly be spending quite a bit of time in the training arena. In fact I was there the other night, apparently the main arenas went down and there were a bunch of people in the TA. I listened to Widewing extol the virtues of the F4F-U, did my best to follow Dam0 and Mayfield for a bit, as well as crash into the ground. Not a bad first night.

Setting up a training session will probably have to wait till after the holidays. My work schedule allows me 3 or 4 days off a week, but with the holiday season upon us, I am quite often called away from the computer.

Ingame ID is Morr. I look forward to seeing you and the other trainers.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by Coshy
...Now I just have to figure out what cornering velocity is...

Its pretty simple really.
The faster an aircraft is moving the wider the turn circle will be in actual diameter measured in meters/feet/yards etc. Say if your at 400 MPH your turn circle is going to be very wide due to centrifugal force.
Conversely the slower its going the smaller the turn circle will be. If you go too slow you'll stall and wont even make a complete circle.
So obviously something in between is where you want your speed to be in order to turn more effectively. Not too fast, not too slow.
So speed is critical to how 'fast' you can turn - eg time elapsed to complete your turn. There is an optimum speed at which an aircraft can turn the most degrees per second. Each aircraft is different, but they tend to be for AH2 a/c at mid-to-lower-mid-range speeds.
So by 'corner velocity' i mean this said theoretical 'optimum speed' at which you will be able to turn the most degrees/second in a given a/c.

Its also worth noting that the more you turn, the more speed you loose, so its very hard to actually maintain corner velocity in a prop-driven a/c - keeping your nose low is the only real way to come close. Of course theres a thing called "the ground" that doesn't merge favorably with your aircraft, so this needs to be avoided. The practical down-side of this is that you will no longer be able to maintain corner velocity when on the deck and will slow down to speeds below corner velocity. This is where your turn circle still gets smaller, but the number of degrees/second actually increase - cause it takes longer to get around the circle. This is where a/c like spitfires and Zekes have a big advantage as they can manage better degrees per second at slower speeds than say a Jug or Mustang. This is what people mean by saying in broad terms like "Zeke will out-turn a Mustang hands down!" This is a over-simplification. It will out-turn it if the fight slows down to speeds where the Zeke is closer to its corner velocity. The mustang can out-turn the Zeke if the mustang keeps to its corner velocity. The trick is staying at or about your corner velocity if you want to play the angles game.

[Dichotomy]

Coshy and Phil...

keep in mind while you're playing that a lot of guys and ladies have been doing online flight sims for over a decade.  I'm still getting my head handed to me on most of my sorties.  There will come a time when you get frustrated and want to give up.  Don't... It takes a LOT of time to get really good at this game.  Something I'd like to suggest is if you know a player is a good stick see if you can ride with them on a couple of sorties.  Something that helped me immensly was just to join some of my squadmates to get an idea of how things are supposed to look, feel, and sound, when you're engaged.  In fact I need to do some more of that soon.

Good luck and if you see me in the TA feel free holler on vox... I'm always up for playing target drone for somebody newer than me.  Can't teach you much but I'm happy to help.

[FX1]

I have film of a 15 kill spit 16 run that has just about very move in my book. Holding E, reversal, 5 on 1, 1v1, Acm.

Just need someone to host the film.

I also have a 18 kill tempest run that shows the basic for defence 30 con run holding E and staying alive.

Both of those films will teach you what i have learned over the years to be aggressive and to stay safe with many many cons.

[Benny Moore]

Also note that, at least in the simulator, turning at your corner velocity will always get you outturned by someone else who is in the same ship as you and pulling as tight of a turn as he can, with flaps.  I'm not sure if it's correct or not, but I suspect not.  It does, however, help you outturn ships that are not using flaps, and is a good way of saving energy when turning with inferior turning aircraft or pilots.  For the P-38, corner velocity without flaps is about 220 M.P.H., and with maneuver flaps it's about 180 M.P.H.  Note that changes such as weight and power can drastically change this.

There is another kind of yo-yo that is especially useful when your target is flying straight and level and much slower than you, such as a bomber (although you shouldn't be approaching bombers from behind unless they are unarmed) or a heavily damaged fighter.  This is merely pulling back on the stick, doing a half roll, pulling back again, and another half roll.  Performed correctly, you should increase your distance but keep your high closure rate.

[4deck]

Thanx for all these AHF films. They are priceless for me.
Floatsup