Author Topic: P-47n Eny? (Read 1812 times)

Stoney74 · « **on:** December 20, 2006, 12:02:00 AM »

Just curious if someone can explain to me why P-47N has an ENY of 5 and the P-51D has an ENY of 8. Seems to me it should be the opposite or at least the same?

zorstorer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2006, 12:18:20 AM »

ENY's seem to be random within a range....

Look at the 190's

The F8 has a LOWER eny than the A8???

Krusty · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2006, 12:44:27 AM »

The P47N can fly forever on internal gas, is a mighty juggernaught, has 8x50cal, can carry 2,500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets at the same time, and 3,400 rounds of 50cal. At altitude very few planes can beat its performance.

Maybe all of these facts plus the high-powered engine make it more valuable than the pony?

Then again, not too long ago pony was 5 ENY.

Stoney74 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2006, 12:55:29 AM »

I thought the basis of eny was partly based on plane performance with a modifier for total use and kill/death ratio of past tours. P-51D blows away the P-47N for use and k/d ratio at least the last time I checked.

I agree Krusty, its a beast of a plane, and certainly capable. I fly Jugs most of the time anyway, but it still requires more discipline to fly correctly than a Pony, at least IMHO...

And, if the "flying dump truck" factor is important, shouldn't they just lower the OBJ rating and not the ENY? I thought that was one of the reasons the F4U-1C had a 5 OBJ when the other planes with similar ordnance haul factors had a 10 OBJ. I thought ENY was an air-to-air rating???

bozon · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:09:39 AM »

P47N is a very late war plane. Although produced in quite large numbers, the pony was the main US airforce fighter. Makes sense to me.

Personally I'd prefer it to be lightly perked and higher ENY. I have nothing to spend perks on and on the few occasions I tried to up one, the ENY limiter kicked in.

Stoney74 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:17:02 AM »

Out of the last 5 tours (including the current one) the P-51D has more P-47N kills than the P-47N has kills of the P-51D except Tour 79. P-51D kill ratio over the last 4 tours (swag based on numbers) is around 1.1-1.3 over the P-47N. K/D in Tour 79 was approx 1.1-1.2 in favor of the Jug

I could be more scientific and go back farther over more tours (in addition to computing actual K/D ratios), but the Jug ENY has only been changed to 5 since last month. I think it was 12 in the past?

Wolfala · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:18:17 PM »

The best month i've seen recently in the 47N was back in August 06, with July 05 comming in a close 2nd. Kills vs deaths having a delta between 5-10% +- whatever they were during the tour. Since I fly the 47N exclusively, except when ENY kicks in - I have a few notes on the subject.

1. Eny is annoying when you need the N most.

2. You can tanker around forever - 90 min missions are not uncommon when you use the correct power settings

3. Going from 2000 to 2800 HP in WEP is a serious kick in the bellybutton - at any altitude and helps when operating in dumptruck mode.

4. I've survived more close calls with cannon birds in the 47 then any other bird.

5. Guns staggered bank 4 to 375 3 to 400, 2 to 425, 1 to 425 all the way upto has a nice paper shreader effect with crossing streams.

6. For some reason, my guns have been very attracted to Stony's engine everytime i've encountered him at 20k.

7. The N when handled properly can take 3:1 odds and still come out on top - especially at 20K and higher.

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:44:03 PM »

I don't think K:D has anything to do with ENY stoney. It's a non-entity. I think use and capability are what HTC uses to decide the ENY value.

EDIT: I think the N-Jug has been 5 ENY since it came out?

Platano · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:24:59 PM »

I thought ENY kicked in when a plane was being overused.... If this is not the case than someone explain it to me or if not direct me to where I can find out more about this phenomenom?

indy007 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:58:18 PM »

Well, I'd think that 3 ENY difference could be attributed to how it effects gameplay, as opposed to pure K-D ratio.

Given equal pilots, The -47N has a potential 1300 lbs more damage it can do than a P-51D on a single sortie. I could be alittle off, but I'm assuming 1 US rocket = 200lb explosion. With the relatively even speeds with the Pony & extra durability to survive the ack, it simply has more ability to influence game play. That's without bothering to calculate the extra 2 mg's & relative ammo loads.

I'd chalk it up to how it effects AH, as opposed to the relative fighter performance of the 2 aircraft.

humble · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2006, 05:57:24 PM »

I've never fully understood the eny values. The 109K4 is the most deadly plane in the game from my perspective. Personally the hog is as capable as any plane in the game....it flat out owns the spit16 and pony IMO. Jugs take an awful lot of patience and touch to fly well IMO. I've always been suprised that the N has such a low eny....compared to the spit VIII or pony for example....

bozon · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2006, 12:56:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by indy007
The -47N has a potential 1300 lbs more damage it can do than a P-51D on a single sortie. I could be alittle off, but I'm assuming 1 US rocket = 200lb explosion. With the relatively even speeds with the Pony & extra durability to survive the ack, it simply has more ability to influence game play. That's without bothering to calculate the extra 2 mg's & relative ammo loads.

Here are 2 misconceptions about the P47-N.

The D40 is a better JABO than the N. D40 out climbs the N and so will bring you quicker to the target and higher. The only thing the N has to offer in this respect is a faster getaway if you didn't waste your WEP on the climbout. If you didn't use WEP on the climbout, expect to climb like a bomber (and slower than D40). People take it just because it has a later version number.

The other is than the N is the fastest jug. It is, but only on WEP. Without WEP it is actually the slowest jug. You get 5 minutes of pure joy, as if the engine runs on pure adrenaline instead of fuel. In those 5 minutes it is a wonderful plane, but if you run out - dumptruck mode. You needed to save the WEP for the fighting which means a loooong climbout.

The extra range comes at the cost of outrageous weight of fuel and that in practice, is unneeded over what the D's offer. Jugs pay dearly in performance for their range. The guns are even farther out from the centerline because of the redesigned wing, making convergence a bigger issue.

What really makes the N a better fighter then the D's is the roll rate. It is wonderful. The other little benefit is the bigger wing gives better low speed handling imo. Oh yes, and the 5 minutes of joy

I still think it is an appropriate low perk and that the ENY should be raised so it doesn't get locked so early.

Stoney74 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2006, 01:23:53 AM »

But, correct me if I'm wrong, ENY is an air-to-air rating. OBJ is an attack or bombing rating. There's no question the Jugs (minus the D11) are great Jabo's, and I can see a lower OBJ rating as a result, but the ENY shouldn't be low because its a great Jabo, right? The C-Hog is the only plane in the game with an OBJ of 5, and I was under the assumption it was because it could carry lots of ordnance, and still have all those cannon for strafing.

I think the N model Jug is a great air-to-air aircraft, no doubt--I fly it a lot and get kills. But, I just don't understand how the Pony D has a higher ENY than the N Jug. Climb rate (even on WEP), speed, turn rate are all in the Pony's favor. The only advantage the Jug N has on the Pony is 8 vs. 6 Ma deuce, slightly better roll rate, and a fantastic zoom climb (if you have speed) unless you're above 25K, then the Jug really starts to outshine the Pony. But, lets face it, no one flies that high in the MA to dogfight, and even if they did, all that altitude is too big a temptation for the Pony to dive away to thicker air, and much better performance.

Not gonna obsess about it, just hoping someone could provide a quantitative or qualitative justification...

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2006, 05:37:44 PM »

Bozon: The milpow speed is slower than all other P47s, yes, but we're talking only about 5mph slower at all alts. That's almost inconsequential. Not worth noting. The WEP speed is WAY more. So I think overall the WEP is worth it. That coupled with the roll rate, acceleration, and other factors, makes it better than the D-40 in most cases. Yes, the climb does suck, but it sucks in all jugs. You have to expect to climb out for 10 minutes in all of them, and in the N you have plenty of gas to climb out with.

Stoney: Wrong system. OBJ are inanimate objects [edit: I mean, everything else but you]. Kill something with an object of xxx and it uses that value to compute the perks you earned in that sortie. They don't affect the plane's value with ENY, just how much perks you rake in IF you kill one. ENY is used as the "value" of the plane. obj is used as the "cost" of the plane, basically.

Lusche · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2006, 05:54:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

Stoney: Wrong system. OBJ are inanimate objects [edit: I mean, everything else but you]. Kill something with an object of xxx and it uses that value to compute the perks you earned in that sortie.

Quoting from HTCs help pages:

"A TBM-3 with an OBJ value of 25 that destroys a bunker with a point value of 20 would receive (25/20) = 1.25 bomber perk points."

Obviosly, Stoney was right. OBJ hes a similar role to ENY when attacking things. Your plane has an OBJ value, used for perk gain computations.