reversals? Break turn help?aiming

[rimfirematt]

I dont get it. I get a bogey on the 6, maybe 1.5 k out I turn hard and look back and see the bogey turning on me. It always looks like they are gonna miss, but they almost always get me. How do I avoid this?

Also, how about aiming? I am lucky to get 3 kills with a f4u ammo loadout. It seems most everyone can whack me instantly witha short burst, and at any angle I am in

[Blagard]

Its in situations like this that you want to have the film recorder going. Afterwards you can review what you did and also view it from the attackers cockpit. Chances are you turned far enough in front of the bogey for it to do a fairly gentle turn for a snapshot, Alternatively you simply did not break hard enough and it just followed you around.

Next time up start filming and later review the fights that are interesting.
Some of the guys on here only need one good opportunity to kill you! They are not all bad shots like me!

[Wizer]

How do you view film from the attacker's cockpit?

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by Wizer
How do you view film from the attacker's cockpit?

Double click the opponents pilot name in the list to the right.


Uncheck "use recorded views" when you do this though, as the views are ALWAYS your own, no matter which plane youre currently in.

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by rimfirematt
I dont get it. I get a bogey on the 6, maybe 1.5 k out I turn hard and look back and see the bogey turning on me. It always looks like they are gonna miss, but they almost always get me. How do I avoid this?

If they are still able to lead (and hence shoot) you, your break was not tight enough or you misjudged the Energy difference (ie your opponents speed). Also, if you turn *hard* at d1.5, your giving your opponent time to react and adjust his path. Start the break easy and tighten it up as the guy closes in.


Break turn reversal:

Thats the last move i showed you, against a HIGHER, FASTER and LESS MANEUVERABLE (this might also mean that hes less skilled or too fast to turn sharp.... its a matter of situational awareness and judgement) opponent.

What i do is this: I watch the enemy closing, basically presenting him my tail. I want him to dive in on me from behind with considerably more speed than i have. For my own speed i try to keep it low enough so i can turn tightly, but not too slow, so im still able to move - around 200-300 mph (depending on plane).

Now when the enemy is at about 1.5 K out (again depending on closure rate... the faster he approaches, the further away you need to start) i slowly start my turn. a VERY gentle, easy turn... i still want the guy to follow me, I need to get him to commit himself to following me. He needs to think hell be able to shoot me in a second. Then, as he comes closer i slowly *tighten* the turn... always JUST denying him his shot (hell have to pull inside my turn for lead). When hes at about 800, i seriously tighten my turn, chop throttle if neccessary. He wont be able to follow while pulling lead. When i see him getting carried outside my turn circle in the back view (=overshoot!), i hit full throttle + WEP, go vertical (flaps if your speed makes them neccessary) and roll over the top and - hopefully - in behind him (thats almost a barrel roll kind of move, you are inverted flight over the top and should have your opponent in the look up view!).

This is an ahf film on how it looked on my end. View it in Fixed View, with Trails and Icons checked. Adjust your viewpoint with the sliders so you got a good overview on both planes. Then also watch the move from inside my cockpit.
This move takes some practice to get the timing down.


This is a help package from Murdr on a variation of the above reversal:

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/evarevall.zip


You can contact any trainer to ask for help with those moves in game.

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by rimfirematt
Also, how about aiming? I am lucky to get 3 kills with a f4u ammo loadout. It seems most everyone can whack me instantly witha short burst, and at any angle I am in

Get up close and personal for shooting. Inside the 400 yard range (displayed in icon) is the optimum shooting window.
Check that you are using the correct amount of lead (see quote below... the lead computed gunsight can help you a lot with that) and fire only short bursts - avoid to "walk" your tracers on target, as that costs a lot of ammo.

If you get hits, but do not *kill* adjusting your Convergence can help.

The .target ### command brings up a floating target (that always stayy N of your plane) at a distance ### yards. To make it disappear, just use .taget 0 command.


While im not one that has good aim at all, this is what helped my gunnery.

* Stick to one gun type at a time for a while. This removes adapting to the "ballistics" part of the equation constantly and helps you get a better feel for the rest (judging speeds, angles, etc)

* dont fire different guns together, ie cannon and MG in Spit for example. Even if you fire at convergence distance - on a stationary target it would mean both cannon and MG would hit the same spot. But, a2a theres also the other planes speed (ie movement) to take into account. Now, MG has a lot faster muzzle speed then the Hispanos, meaning the MG rounds will get to target in less time - time in which the target moves a certain distance. Now, if you fire a Hispano round, due to the lower speed it will take more time to travel to target, read: The target will have more time to move, read: you will have to pull more lead in the same position/speed/angle then youd need with a MG. So, to make a long story short, unless youre VERY close, youll only hit with one of the guns - and - in my experience - thats usually the MG

* get up close and personal for shooting. Make getting on the six of the enemy for a tracking shot your main goal in a fight. Not pulling for a shot. Ive seen this numerous times in TA when people fought me. They kept giving up position and angles, just to pull for that one, low% snapshot theyd miss anyway. When i fought them "cold guns" and goal of the fight was to get 200 off my tail and stay there, theyd suddely have a 200% improvement in their "skill". By that i dont mean "dont take any snapshots" - i just mean that PATIENCE is a huge virtue and sometimes giving up one snapshot in favor of gaining angle/position and a higher% tracking shot gets you further then you may think

* set your convergences to your usual shooting distance. If you have the feeling that you hit a lot, but dont KILL, it might be you need to adjust your convergences. In a turnfighter, my usual conv is between 175 and 250 yards. For a more BnZ type of flying, you might want to have them a little further out. Play around on those and find out whats best for you.

* fire short (1/2 second) bursts only. Never "walk" your guns on the target. Shoot and hit, or shoot and miss, adjust aim, shoot again. Try to visually remember the "view" in your gunsights when you hit. Develop your gunner eye

* try turning tracers off for a bit. this will force you to judge your aim BEFORE hitting the fire button, and not depend on shooting first, then see where your tracers go and adjust your aim afterwards. If you turn them back on later or not is personal preference. I left mine off, mainly because when i tried turning them on again, all i did was watch those beautiful light effects in the air and not my aquired target (read: my hit% dropped from a solid 10% to 1-2%)

* shoot drones offline. get unlimited fuel/ammo, set yourself certain "rules". Make a game of it. Heres some suggestions, just be creative, im sure youll find more that suit your personal "problem zones" best - put on some loud, badazz music for the occasion
- tracers off, no LCG
- make fast passes from high 4-8 oclock, no shooting inside d400
- turn icons off
- fly the circle clockwise (opposite drone flying direction) - practice snapshots
- aim for certain parts, take the drones apart piece by piece. wingtip, wing, rudder, stab, tail.... If it blows before youre done, youve lost.

* ask Schatzi for a "date" in the TA and blast her full of bullets for suggesting all that BS

[airspro]

About 400 on the icon , when that shows up it's really 500 yards . Think on that , that's 5 football fields distance . I hardly ever hit anything that far unless it's a dead six shot and the con is trying to just fly away from me .

I see this all the time in game , new guys shooting from to far away then when or if they finally do get close enough they don't have any ammo left to kill it

I have both my guns set to 300 distance , and only shoot from 200d or less . Think a sec 200d (300 yards) is when it first comes up is 3 football field away , that's still a long wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy IMO . The guys that blow you up are the ones working to get a good close in shot that KILLS .

When 0d comes up it's 100 yards , get how that works ? 400d is 500 at first . 200d is 300 at first , etc .

You can get 6 kills easy with F4u amm load out . Work for the shot , then shoot . I can't stress enough to hold your fire till you get close , that's the hardest thing to do , your gonna WANT to fire but trust me it's really not gonna do what you think it will .

Ever hear them on channel ? I shot so and so with soooooo many bullets etc etc . Only thing is they shoot from to far away to do much damage .
======

I tryed out 109K4 last night , been a long time since I have used that , now it's only got 30mm cannons no option for 20mm . I landed my last mission with 33 30mm left and three kills . I can't beleive how good that plane is against bombers also it's a dream hehe .

Get close or closer I tell my squads new guys , it works .

[Schatzi]

The distance indicated in the Icon is in yards. It is more detailed for friendly planes then for enemies.

for enemy icons, the distances are as follows:

distance between planes in yards ~ range shown in icon

0 - 99 ~ d0
100 - 300 ~ d200
300 - 500 ~ d400
500 - 700 ~ d600
700 - 900 ~ d800
900 - 100 ~ d1000

1000 - 1250 ~ d1.0K
1250 - 1750 ~ d1.5K
1750 - 2250 ~ d2.0K
etc


One side note: distances are in yards, while altitudes are in feet. That means a plane thats directly above you at 1000 yards (icon distance!) is actually about 3000 feet above you.






I try to get to d200 for shooting.
Also, the tracking shot (from BEHIND the guy) has a much higher probability of hitting/killing then front quarter snap shooting. Make the goal in your fights to aquire the opponents six and "saddle up" - then and only then think about shooting. Do not give up angles/position in a fight for a low% front shot.... If one presents itself, sure take it, but dont let it leave you in a bad position - always keep in mind that you can miss a shot and need to be able to get a repeat chance if neccessary.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by rimfirematt
I dont get it. I get a bogey on the 6, maybe 1.5 k out I turn hard and look back and see the bogey turning on me. It always looks like they are gonna miss, but they almost always get me. How do I avoid this?

Also, how about aiming? I am lucky to get 3 kills with a f4u ammo loadout. It seems most everyone can whack me instantly witha short burst, and at any angle I am in

You got the right technique but you need to make a few adjustments.

First of all, you want the nme high and fast,  next as he closes with you, you start a lead turn, very slit, just a roll into a slight turn (5* of bank), As he starts to turn with you, lower your nose if you can, but come back on your power.  You want your nme to be faster then you.
The radius of the turn is determined by the speed of the aircraft.   Slower aircraft. smaller turn radius.  Faster aircraft, larger turn radius.    As the distance closes between the two aircraft, roll into a tighter turn and you may want to bring your power up a little, the tighter turn, pulling G’s, will bleed off speed.  

The nme (now the faster aircraft can not turn with you) as he passes behind you, start a roll in towards the nme.   You will be turning inside of their track because of your lower speed. You will be somewhere between 200 to 600 out,  Guns, Guns, Guns.   You may not kill them at first, but you can scare them pretty good.   I filmed every encounter when I first started playing learned a lot,   I still film a lot.  It helps.  

If you notice that he doesn’t turn with you, that the nme aircraft starts to pull up or turns up and away.  Just continue your turn away, start a slight climb  and set yourself up for the next attack run.  If he does turn with you but breaks away when he realized that he can’t get a shot on you, turned towards his six, even if he has more E.  follow him climbing If you can , to store E and just incase he makes a mistake in his escape.  Even if you didn’t shoot him down, you won the encounter.  You forced him from an attack to an escape maneuver.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by rimfirematt
I dont get it. I get a bogey on the 6, maybe 1.5 k out I turn hard and look back and see the bogey turning on me. It always looks like they are gonna miss, but they almost always get me. How do I avoid this?

I've been playing for over 10 years and this has always been my achilles heal.  I was actually thinking about asking one of the trainers to help me out with this but instead have been concentrating on it myself in the arenas.

What I've realized is that if I have a view of the enemy's nose in my up, up-back or back view as they draw into gun position they have a shot on me almost every time.

I don't want to discount the advise given above because if you can pull the turn tighter you may be able to avoid the shot (the method I've usually used) but it usually means pulling across their guns.

Realizing what I said above about views I decided that if I didn't have a view they may not have a shot, therefore recently I've been following the standard proceedure (gentle slighltly deceasing turn radius) until they reach gun range, then I roll 90 degrees and break hard.

This has helped tremendously.  Where I would have been shot 8 of 10 times now I get shot 2 of 10 times.  They still sometimes get a ping as I break but better than dying.

The down-side is that you lose visual on the bogie and you need to get it back quickly.  I usually do so by continuing through my roll once I've broken successfully.

I used to have the old addage, lose sight lose the fight in mind but when the enemy is saddling up on you you're already losing the fight.

[rimfirematt]

thanks for the advice all, baldeagl, your describing exactly what I am going through. Ill keep that in mind and try not to keep my eye on the enemy in the turn, i.e turn harder!

[Wizer]

Originally posted by Schatzi
Double click the opponents pilot name in the list to the right.


Uncheck "use recorded views" when you do this though, as the views are ALWAYS your own, no matter which plane youre currently in.

Thank you.  Even us so called vets can learn something

[MajWoody]

Also is stall limiter enable checked? if it is you won't be able to break hard enough to avoid the shot. Make sure it is turned off......unchecked

[Dichotomy]

dumb question but how do I turn the icons off and do unlimited fuel?   90% of my flying these days is offline when I can grab 5 minutes or so and that sounds like a great way to practice

[Murdr]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Realizing what I said above about views I decided that if I didn't have a view they may not have a shot, therefore recently I've been following the standard proceedure (gentle slighltly deceasing turn radius) until they reach gun range, then I roll 90 degrees and break hard.

Evasive reversal lesson package

Originally posted by Dichotomy
dumb question but how do I turn the icons off and do unlimited fuel?   90% of my flying these days is offline when I can grab 5 minutes or so and that sounds like a great way to practice

Options>Arena setup>Enviorment>Arena settings >  Change FuelBurnMultiplier  to .001
alt+i to cycle through Icon display options.