Author Topic: BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident  (Read 618 times)

Offline Wolfala

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4875
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« on: December 29, 2006, 10:41:26 AM »
Dude collided with a banner tower's cable, ensnared his engine - and he popped the top.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K0v9fGVs8M


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2006, 11:00:24 AM »
Those parachutes are pretty dang cool.  I'm of mixed feeling about them, but they're undeniably useful in some situations.

My concerns about them are this:
1. That some pilots might use the fact that they have the chute to decide to fly when they shouldn't.  "Sure, it's instrument conditions, but if anything happens, I'll just pull the chute" isn't proper risk management, it's taking an emergency backup measure and turning it into a primary flight planning tool, an action which inherently reduces safety.  This can be fixed through education, but the number of Cirrus crashes seems to suggest that this education isn't happening yet with the largest trackable segment of GA that uses the chutes.

2. The non-pilots might make the determination that ALL airplanes should have this.  Seatbelt and helmet laws prove that government has no problem using central authority to legislate personal responsibility.  This is bad for liberty, and there are plenty of planes that don't have the spare performance to take on the extra weight, not to mention the financial hardship this would place on people.  This concern can probably be alleviated through education too, but unfortunately that education would probably have to come via lobbying groups like AOPA, and I grow less and less convinced that they represent the interests of small pilots.

3. See #1.  It's worth mentioning twice.

I'm perfectly comfortable flying in a plane without them, but I can see the utility of investing in something like this if it becomes practical.  While I think I could safely land in the vast majority of failure modes I'm likely to encounter, the video posted yesterday demonstrated that there's always something out there you might not expect that can get ya.  Most of GA doesn't have the opportunity to join the Martin-Baker club, so this might be the closest equivalent for the non-military pilot.  Dunno, it's a thinker.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2006, 11:36:03 AM »
Nice dig, Wolf.

Offline detch01

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1788
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2006, 12:49:20 PM »
interesting video. Nice find Wolfala.:aok

Chairboy brings up a good point on these though. Even if these emergency chutes will save an airplane from every conceivable unlandable emergency they are no substitute for pilot-training in avoiding and handling emergencies.
But:
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
The non-pilots might make the determination that ALL airplanes should have this. Seatbelt and helmet laws prove that government has no problem using central authority to legislate personal responsibility. This is bad for liberty,

Sorry, I don't see where liberty comes into it. As far as I can see this is about as much a threat to liberty as having to have an ELT installed in your airplane.  

Cheers,
asw
asw
Latrine Attendant, 1st class
semper in excretio, solum profundum variat

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2006, 12:55:32 PM »
Wow.  Decrying a loss of liberty over something that could save your life.

That's a new mark for you.

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2006, 01:08:40 PM »
To clarify, my objection is to the possibility of the government requiring that all aircraft have this, not to the device itself.  

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

LePaul: Having a breathalyzer built into your car that you'd have to blow into every time might save your life.  Is it ok for the government to require it?  Next, putting a camera in your house (including bathroom) might save your life.  Most fatalities are medical or accidents that happen in or around the home.  A nice operator watching the video screens might have saved Elvis by sending a paramedic when he got a heart attack on the toilet.  Are you ok with the government legislating it?

My point is that not everything that might help you should be required by law.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2006, 01:18:27 PM »
I wouldn't oppose brethalyizers in cars.  I'd have a couple very good friends still alive today if they were.  If I'm not mistaken they have these now for some DUI "rehabilated" folks.

Just because it's your "right" to drive drunk and get caught once.  Is it also your right to endanger everyone else out there by doing so?

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2006, 02:24:36 PM »
Using the 'chute as an excuse to fly when you shouldn't is kinda bogus. That means you are basically saying the trip is worth the loss of the aircraft. Popping the 'chute does not save the plane, per se, it saves the occupants. The plane will have significant damage on landing as the chute merely makes the impact with the ground survivable for the ccupants, not the bird. The landing point is also up for grabs and you have no control over where you are going once the rip cord is pulled. Any pilot who uses that reasoning needs to have their cert. pulled and permanently.

Golfer, no one in this country has a right to drive drunk, ever. You do not have a right to drive period, it's a priveledge, just like flying and can be revoked.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2006, 02:47:10 PM »
Chair,

I just think you are over-reacting.  

You certainly have a right to your opinion.  (Even if they strike me as extremely paranoid.)

I just can't imagine someone saying "geez, I wish I didnt have to have that recovery system there to save my life in the event of a catastrophic failure".

It just rates up there with someone saying "Gosh darn it, my computer has too much ram and runs too well."

That's just my take on it.

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2006, 02:57:59 PM »
LePaul, where did I say that?  I said I'd probably get one for my plane, I just hope the government doesn't make it a mandatory piece of equipment.  How is expressing that opinion an overreaction?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Wolf14

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2006, 03:53:24 PM »
Yeah the chute thing is cool, but I wanna know what happened to either pilots SA and why did the guy in the the homebuilt pulled up instead of down, cause from what I saw he pulled up right into the line.

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2006, 03:55:46 PM »
Annnnd welcome to this weeks episode with your host, Wolf14!


Offline Wolf14

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2006, 04:19:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
Annnnd welcome to this weeks episode with your host, Wolf14!



Well somebody was going to say it eventualy. I just wanted to be the first to state the obvious. Hell when I was learnig to fly the glider, it was always drilled into my head to always be aware of what was around you at all times. Never stop looking. Granted things happen, but judging from the video it appeared to me two pilots had their thumbs in the wrong place.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2006, 04:30:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
LePaul, where did I say that?  I said I'd probably get one for my plane, I just hope the government doesn't make it a mandatory piece of equipment.  How is expressing that opinion an overreaction?


Chair,

It's not going to happen. They can't retrofit lots of other aircraft for the 'chute. Both the chute and the aircraft have limitations that prohibit it.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
BRS saves 2 planes in 1 incident
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2006, 04:41:01 PM »
There are some pretty rigid standards to mount a BRS on an aircraft.  Our BD-5 Group was investigating modifying the design to allow for a BRS on one.  Its just not feasible in this design.  (i.e. a pusher-prop system)

So, fear not...a BRS wont work for every aircraft.  And modding one for it is a pretty extensive engineering process.

Thinking the gov't would require a very expensive rocket/chute deployment system does strike me as an over-reaction, dude.