***** "Perk Ordinance" *****

[Bronk]

Ohh so now they were used in some capacity.

which is it?

If no spits USED the 4x20mm in combat, why would you add it?

or

I recall the small handful of spitMkV that had 4x20mm were only used as ground attack,

Gee how many 3 gun La7s saw combat.




Bronk

[Krusty]

No bronk, you do get very argumentative and pick at every little nit you can find, trying to force arguments. It's old hat for you, but it gets tiring and boring for the rest of us. You see that word there, the one even YOU quoted? The word "if"? Look it up in the dictionary. The 4x20mm spitfires LITERALLY had just a handful that saw any service. That's a fraction of the number of 3-gun LA7s that saw service. And, if you're going to start a fight, don't pick the WORST example ever. Most folks want the 3-gun La perked, removed, or minimized in some way. I wouldn't use that as an example of something already in the game, because it's a throwback from the early years of AH1 with little place in the current game. Same as the 20mm on the K-4 and calling it a G-10. They had different standards back then.

Like I said, argue with the folks that presented all this info. The folks that have countless books on the matter. I KNOW you've read the threads. I KNOW you were there during all these arguments. I say argue with them, but you know you wouldn't win.

And yet, you again try to force a fight with me for some reason. Go away. I'm not playing your feeble games. I've summarized what has been presented umpteen-billion times. You're trying to shoot the messenger.

[Bronk]

And you like to make blanket statements.

That go something like this.


The P-39 sucks, one of the worst AC of the war.

Or


B-24 Never flew at 30' to and from target ever!!!!!!!


Or

If they never used 4x 20mm spits ,why put them in game?


So yes if you want to make blanket statement I'll nit pick all I want.


Nice how that works ehh.


Bronk

[DREDger]

Aweful lot of discussion on this, are we sure this is set to occur or not?  Nothing posted under news and announcements.

I've got something for you all, I heard from this guy, who has this neighbor who's wifes cousin saw a guy who looked like HiTech talking to a dude who looked like Pyro at this bar...forget the name, but it's not important, this is reliable information...anyway,

They were overheard saying that now we will have to actually pay for perk rides as part of our monthly dues.  Take up a 262, get shot down, that's an extra $5 for next month, $3 for temps, etc..  It's what I heard,,,dunno

[1K3]

If there should be a 4-cannon spit, then HTC should re introduce the Spitfire Vc (The current spit 5 we have is a Vb) because Vc was the only spit that carried 4x 20's in action.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by DREDger
Aweful lot of discussion on this, are we sure this is set to occur or not?  Nothing posted under news and announcements.

I've got something for you all, I heard from this guy, who has this neighbor who's wifes cousin saw a guy who looked like HiTech talking to a dude who looked like Pyro at this bar...forget the name, but it's not important, this is reliable information...anyway,

They were overheard saying that now we will have to actually pay for perk rides as part of our monthly dues.  Take up a 262, get shot down, that's an extra $5 for next month, $3 for temps, etc..  It's what I heard,,,dunno

Well now.

Originally posted by Pyro
Kidding aside, perk ordnance is what it sounds like- the ability to charge perks for specific ordnance loadouts.  It means that instead of having the 1C as a separate plane, I can just make 20mm cannons a perked loadout on the 1D and save space.  Beyond that, we could offer up some more exotic weapon choices without fear of them overrunning the arenas or having to add separate planes to do them.  57mm on your Mossie, Tiny Tims on your Corsair, whatever.  We're not going to do nukes so forget about that.  I don't know when this will be done so don't ask.

From this thread .
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=192234&perpage=40&highlight=perk%20ordnance&pagenumber=2


Bronk

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by 1K3
If there should be a 4-cannon spit, then HTC should re introduce the Spitfire Vc (The current spit 5 we have is a Vb) because Vc was the only spit that carried 4x 20's in action.

Yup the old Vc should return with a mild perked 4x20mm option, or a standard unperked 2x20mm option.

IX's had problems and never carried 4x20mm

Only Spit that carried them from day one (wartime use) was the F.21

Did see a pic of the prototype Griffon Spit Mk IV with 6 x 20mms .

Krusty will disagree with one thing - It was realised way back in 1939/1940 that more cannons were preferable. Hence the RAF spec for the first prototype Spit IV was that it should have the ability to carry up to 6 x 20mms.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup the old Vc should return with a mild perked 4x20mm option, or a standard unperked 2x20mm option.

IX's had problems and never carried 4x20mm

Only Spit that carried them from day one (wartime use) was the F.21

Did see a pic of the prototype Griffon Spit Mk IV with 6 x 20mms .

Krusty will disagree with one thing - It was realised way back in 1939/1940 that more cannons were preferable. Hence the RAF spec for the first prototype Spit IV was that it should have the ability to carry up to 6 x 20mms.

But in practice it didn't really happen that way. There were also problems warming the outboard guns at altitude, if memory serves. Most that had the 4x gun setup had 2 removed because "2 were enough" -- at this time London was no longer under seige and the bulk of the targets were Luftwaffe fighters, smaller aircraft than the big bombers of the BOB.

EDIT: Got a picture of that spit? That'd be kinda cool to see.

[Apeking]

Bronk:
"Ohh etc"

Krusty:
"No Bronk etc"

My mental image of the people who post here is of this man, physically and mentally. A moustache and a lot of anger. This topic does nothing to dispel that.

Getting back to the thread, a perked weapons arrangement raises the possibility of a generic Hurricane II, with the standard option having 12x.303 and a sky-high perked option having 4x20mm. The RAF's modular wing philosophy would fit well with a perked weapons system, and so would the Luftwaffe's array of field modifications, e.g. the 57mm cannon in the Bf100, the 30mm gondolas for the 109s, the twin-cannon gondolas for the 109, the quad damage for the Ju-87, etc.

I'm sure the purists would argue that a Ju-88A-4 with added 20mm guns as an option does not equal a Ju-88G, and there will be people arguing that such and such a weapon system was never fielded with such and such a version of such and such aircraft at such and such a date. I say damn these people, they are limited.

On the one hand if HTC emphasises accuracy there will be very few perked weapon options; on the other hand, if HTC is willing to play fast and loose with dates and picky little details there could be mass carnage in the skies and on the ground = good.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Krusty
The 190s took the other route, piling more guns and more ammo onto the frame as much as it could carry. Sometimes they put bombs on it so large the tail wheel couldn't touch the ground.

I would very much like to see a picture showing a 190 with a bomb so big on it, the tail wheel couldn't touch the ground....  I suppose it dragged the tail fins of the bomb along the ground as it took off, eh?

[Krusty]

Nope, they rigged a fake tail wheel, on a long pole, and when the plane took off it was jettisoned and it either was disposable or had a chute. Let me dig up an example for you.

[1K3]

I guess if HTC implements "Perk Ordinance", we will see the following (i hope)...


*  A T-34/76 (76mm armed gun) that can be upgraded to T-34/85 (armed with 85mm).  The frame is basically the same but the turret is different

*  A Hurricane II that can carry 12x 30 cals or perk option of 4x 20mm cans or 2x 40 cans + 4x 30 cals

*  An Fw 190A-8 that can carry a gondolas 20mm cannons (that makes it total of 6 cannons!)

*  An Fw 190F-8 that can carry a torpedo!

*  A cannon armed F6F-5 (2x 20mm and 4x 50 cals)

*  24 R4M rockets for Me 262

*  bombs and rockets for Tempest.

*  A gondola package for Bf 109K-4

*  La-7 with 3-cannon option

[Krusty]

Found a photo. Turns out the jettisonable tail wheel was on a 109, not a 190.

The 190 they ripped the tail wheel off, added about a foot's worth of extra tubing, and stuck it back on again.

The SC1000 bomb (1000kg) was so big it had to have the bottom fin removed to barely clear the ground. The SC1800 (the big egg we currently have on the Ju87) was even larger still. The photo below shows the modification to the tail wheel so that this type of craft could carry torpedos and SC1800s (same mod for either type).

[Bronk]

Interesting  pic Krusty.


Looks like it is on stilts.


Bronk

[Mustaine]

speaking of....


if we ever do get modified plane ord loads i would love to the the 190 F8 with the torpedo option.