Aircraft numbering...

[kamilyun]

So I know after WW2 the US started going with F designation for fighters instead of P for pursuit and continued to take the #'s higher and higher:

F-86, F-100, F-111, etc.

Why and when did the US start back with the lower #'s?  F-4 Phantom, F-14, 15, 16 etc...

Did they just start over and fill in the #'s of non-operational planes?  Why then go back to the F-117?  

Also, the F-4 Phantom was in service by 1960.  However, the specifications which led to the F-111 program were only outlined by the government in 1960.  Different services switch at different times?

Thanks in advance

[Guppy35]

F4 was originally the F-110 with the AF if memory serves.  I think it had more to do with the MacNamara idea of a multirole aircraft for all services that got in the way.

F4 being the main one to do this since all services used it.  I think the F14, 15, 16, 17/18 stuff all was for this same reason as they had fly offs to see which was best.

naturally the AF took the 15 and 16 while the USN took the 14 and 18

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

And oddly enough, we also have the F-117A Stealth fighter, which is actually an attack plane that can't really dog fight, but can only defend itself by stealth and counter measures for the most part. It is a cool little plane, but an A-10 is as much a fighter as it is. I'm sure the F-117 designation is the way the AF denotes it really isn't a fighter, but rather an attack plane. The AF doesn't like attack planes really, that's why they want rid of the A-10, it isn't a fighter, and it is old school low tech stick and rudder. It is also the only plane suited for its task.

[Saxman]

My dad mentioned to me once that they should transfer aircraft like the A-10 over to the Army for their use, similar to how the Army operates their own attack helicopters independently of the USAF. That way the Air Force can have their over-built computerized toys, and the Army can keep its low-tech dependable ground-pounder that can do the jobs the F-16 can't.

[Treize69]

Army and Marine Tankers say the same thing Sax. (Former-19K here  )

[Denniss]

Originally posted by kamilyun
Why and when did the US start back with the lower #'s?  F-4 Phantom, F-14, 15, 16 etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_United_States_Tri-Service_aircraft_designation_system

[kamilyun]

Thanks.  I had tried Googling it, but hadn't used the right keywords apparently.

Amazing how much the services have just continued to ignore the "standard" numbering system.  There's more text on exceptions than the actual system in that Wiki article.

And the F-35 was just apparently an on the fly designation when it should have been F-24!

[Mace2004]

There was a lot of confusion in the sixties because of the transition.  The McDonnell F-4 Phantom II was originally the F4H following the F3H Demon, F2H Banshee and FH Phantom.  It was sort of caught in the transition period so retained the -4.  Same thing happened with the F-8 which was originally the F8U and the Grumman F11F became the F-11A and numerous others before things really settled out starting with the F-14, which, BTW should have been the F-13 but who would have wanted that?

The F-111 designation is a result of the USAF's unfortunate predilection for naming bombers "fighters" and the number fit in with the century series of fighters.  This almost became a major disaster for the Navy when MacNamara, himself unable to tell the difference between a fighter and a bomber, tried to foist off this USAF "Fighter" on the Navy.  Maybe this should have been the F-13 as it seems somewhat appropriate.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Treize69
Army and Marine Tankers say the same thing Sax. (Former-19K here  )

Marines cringe when they see A-10's.

[Treize69]

Only those who can't forgive what happened in Desert Storm. Happened to the Army too, Air Force apparently can't tell the difference between an M1 and a T-70 to save our lives...

Which is another reason they should let the Army have them, especially considering they don't want them anyway. Marines have got it right, their pilots train right alongside the ground forces so they know exactly who and what they're protecting on CAS missions, same thing with the Army attack choppers. For the AF, protecting the Mud Bugs is a distant 3rd or 4th in priorities.

[Mace2004]

Originally posted by Treize69
Only those who can't forgive what happened in Desert Storm.

Desert Storm hell!  Marines still get after us Navy guys about WWII.

[Stoney74]

Mace, Marines give sailors a hard time out of pure principle...

[Treize69]

"I love all you Navy boys- everytime we have to go someplace to fight, you're always willing to give us a ride."

[Saxman]

According to my sister (a....6-month Navy "veteran" with a medical discharge before she even got out of Basic) the Marines look to give female sailors a hard time of a different sort.

[Krusty]

Give the A-10s to the Marines. Only the Marines. They know its their brothers down there. They've been down there. They make damn sure they do it right and save lives instead of losing them. That's the reason why ground troops prefered Marine air support over Navy and Air Force.

With such a reputation, give them the proper tool and the responsibility to do it across-the-board. My humble opinion.