Author Topic: FYI This is not a "HO":)  (Read 4465 times)

Offline humble

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this is the original merge...
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2007, 01:47:16 PM »
in a fight (spit vs ki-84) that I posted awhile back in the training section. It's a pretty clear example of a MA fight under "dueling rules"...

"dueling merge"...

It's so close to a collision I "flinch" down and away because i'm worried about running into him....the screenie below shows view from my end at 200.


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Offline Murdr

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #121 on: January 16, 2007, 03:21:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
Ad hominem is what people do when they know they're wrong but they still want to say something anyway.
Trolling is what you are doing is called.  But let's follow your logic.  Do all of HTC's arena settings meet with your approval?  If they don't then Aces High sucks (following your logic).  Because how the HO was modeled in AW was nothing more than 3 arena setting parameters.  One defining what angle constituted a HO.  One defining what percentage of 'hits' would be rejected for fighters, and another for bombers.  Those parameters were there in part because there was no a practical way to model collusions with player ping times commonly ranging from 600-1200ms.  And something needed to be there to make gameplay more than planes flying though each other guns blazing.

People do not regularly come to this board to complain about being shot several turns into a fight because the other guy maneuvered inside their opposing turn radius.  They do regularly complain about players that want to do nothing more than fly directly at your nose guns blazing, extend away, rinse and repeat.  You seem insistant on saying the two are one in the same...hence the troll title :)

As Widewing said
Quote
I understand your point, but I honestly don't care what the Navy calls it... This isn't the Navy. We set our own definitions. As long as I've been here, what classifies an HO is when both parties can get a guns solution.

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 03:54:06 PM by Murdr »

Offline -SR-

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2007, 03:41:50 PM »
I know very little about aviation history and stand corrected Ack Ack. I obviously know less about flying. I just like to take my animated plane into the virtual sky and whack enemy aircraft out of the air with whatever method works and the opportunity presents. Be it a head on shot or a sneaky shot on a target fixated pilot in a fur ball. I understand the fun that can be had between two evenly matched pilots in a dog fight. I haven't had a good one of those since my AW days. Whenever I get into one in here I have to rush because normally there are other planes that come and either blast my tgt or I get blasted. I still love the game and feel that it should not be taken too seriously.BTW, If I've shot any of you down, you need to drive GVs.  Have some fun damn it.

-SR-

Offline Ack-Ack

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #123 on: January 16, 2007, 03:55:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -SR-
I know very little about aviation history and stand corrected Ack Ack. I obviously know less about flying. I just like to take my animated plane into the virtual sky and whack enemy aircraft out of the air with whatever method works and the opportunity presents. Be it a head on shot or a sneaky shot on a target fixated pilot in a fur ball.


All the power to you.


Quote
 Have some fun damn it.

-SR-


that's the whole point =)


ack-ack
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Offline Brenjen

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #124 on: January 16, 2007, 03:57:03 PM »
Well, I didn't read the whole thread & don't intend to. Nice deflection shot in your opening post Humble.

 Myself, I'll pull the trigger if I find an enemy plane in front of my guns. I don't work to get a HO, but I'll be darned if I'm going to avoid it repeatedly in the same fight.

Offline Tumor

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #125 on: January 16, 2007, 04:35:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Hate to burst any bubbles, but the majority of the time when the other guy doesn't shoot at the merge isn't because he's trying to set up a good fight.  It's because he doesn't have a gun solution.


ack-ack


Ack... the minority of that is exactly what I'm talking about.  I would most often angle off rather than continue into the merge JUST to avoid what is essentially a turning HO session, because.... chances are whoever has the bigger guns or worse, better connection is going to get the kill.  And I firmly disagree that the the less extreme high-angle deflections registered in AW (ok, registered with little lethality).

Oh... and just to make it clear, I look at the HO, as well as the crock-o-crap collision system necessary evils of the game.  Gotta have'em as much as it sucks.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 04:41:06 PM by Tumor »
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Offline weazely

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #126 on: January 16, 2007, 04:46:38 PM »
LMFAO keep (HOing wink wink) deflection shot <> humble




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Offline Murdr

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #127 on: January 16, 2007, 04:48:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tumor
And I firmly disagree that the the less extreme high-angle deflections registered in AW (ok, registered with little lethality).
Been years since seeing the arena setup macros, but I think the normal setting was that the shot had to come from more than 20 degrees off angle of the targets nose to bypass the ho filter.

Of course those who flew the AW PJ like AKAK and I were used to scoring hits through the HO filter, just due to the sheer number of bullets those nose guns could put on target.

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #128 on: January 17, 2007, 09:57:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Been years since seeing the arena setup macros, but I think the normal setting was that the shot had to come from more than 20 degrees off angle of the targets nose to bypass the ho filter.

Of course those who flew the AW PJ like AKAK and I were used to scoring hits through the HO filter, just due to the sheer number of bullets those nose guns could put on target.


heh... ya gotta point.

IT'S OFFICIAL!!!... ACK-ACK is THE HO QUEEN!!! :)

j/k man... you know I luv ya. :aok  :confused: :O
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Offline Ack-Ack

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2007, 12:39:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tumor
heh... ya gotta point.

IT'S OFFICIAL!!!... ACK-ACK is THE HO QUEEN!!! :)

j/k man... you know I luv ya. :aok  :confused: :O


You're still not getting my bud light.



ack-ack
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Offline dtango

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #130 on: January 17, 2007, 05:21:26 PM »
Snaphook-  Thanks for posting the film of the merge above.  I ran it a few times and did some more screenshots for everyone and I hope you don't mind me using it as an example.

WHAT'S AN HO??  IS IT A REALLY A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE?

I mentioned in another thread that in the heat of combat differentiating the difference between an HO or a forward quarter shot can be virtually impossible.  Infact what looks like an HO to one guy might not look like it on the other guy's side and what differentiates an HO from an FQ shot may be nothing more than a matter of visual perspective.

So let's relook at Snaphook's film that appears to be an HO setup.  Here's the same pic he posted of the merge with the Ki-84 at 200 yards out (with trail turned on).



The original image looks like they have been flying straight at each other for some time.  Adding the "trail" to mark the flight path of the Ki-84 makes things a little more complicated.  Will talk about that later though.

Looks like at the same setup again, this time from a 0-degree deflection from Snaphook's Spit:



Looking directly behind the Spit we see that the Ki-84 is actually coming in at a slightly above the Spit.  So is this really a HO or a FQ setup?

Here's the same view from the Ki-84 perspective - 200 yards out from the Spit (view slid left just slightly because the Spit images doesn't show up when it's in the Ki-84's gunsight - quirk of the ah film viewer):



The trail that shows the Spit's flight path is interesting.  Notice again that the last segmet of the trail is at angle relative to the nose of the Ki-84.  This means the Ki-84 is actually coming down at an angle on top of the Spit.

Here's the same view, now externally at 0 degrees deflection off the Ki-84's tail.



Besides the angle in the Spit's flight path you can notice that the Spit is at some deflection presenting a portion of it's right fuselage and top of the fuselage to the Ki-84.

So is this really a HO or FQ setup?

Notice the flight as well and you see Spit curving around.  Had the Ki-84 fired at the Spit earlier an the approach would this have still been considered and HO or a FQ shot?

Now let's advance it a fraction of a second and see what it looks like:

Here's the view from the Ki-84:



Here's the view from the Spit at the same distance:



Had the Ki-84 fired it would have been an FQ shot.  You can clearly see the right fuselage and a portion of the top of the Spit exposed at a deflection to the Ki-84.  Looking at it from the Spit's perspective it would have looked more like an HO.  

So would this have been an HO or FQ shot?  Depends on who's perspective you're looking at.

For grins, here is the same sequence looking at it from a fixed external view:

First frame at the first 200 yards internal pics:



just a moment later...



passing (reverse angle for better view):



For reference it took 5 seconds to go from about 2k out to the initial 200 yard pic above, then another ~1 sec to pass to give everyone a sense of how quickly this pass happened.

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Offline humble

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very well laid out....
« Reply #131 on: January 17, 2007, 06:45:37 PM »
My point originally was to show a "gentlemans" merge between two known adversaries that led to a very entertaining fight. You put a totally different but useful perspective on things. My whole initial point was the simple reality that 80%+ of all "HO's" simply arent.

how this gets distorted to the drams that followed continues to amaze me:)...

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Offline Ack-Ack

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #132 on: January 17, 2007, 07:23:52 PM »
A lot also have to realize that what you see on your FE isn't always what the other guy sees on his FE.  It's just the way of the Intardnet.


ack-ack
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Offline Chalenge

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FYI This is not a "HO":)
« Reply #133 on: January 18, 2007, 08:57:59 AM »
Ive shot some of the big whiners right in the tail feathers from dead six and been accused of ho  :huh go figure.
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Offline Hap

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Re: very well laid out....
« Reply #134 on: January 18, 2007, 12:22:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
how this gets distorted to the drams that followed continues to amaze me:)...


Yes humble!

A bunch of bickering ole bitties.



hap
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 12:32:06 PM by Hap »